tygerfifteen
Ruckster
knobby tires,cdi, k/n filter,variators,rollers
Posts: 248
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Post by tygerfifteen on Jun 15, 2005 16:50:29 GMT -5
okay
so this is what I've done
daytona cdi shimmed the needle= 1mm jetted the carb= 85 afermarket air filter 3 - 5 gram roller weights, 3 - 6 gram rollerweights daytona variator knobby tires
i'm thinking my top speed should be 62-64km correct? fastest I hit was 61km flat slight wind. I've noticed that I can get to 50km way quick but then it slows down getting to 60km I can average 60km but nothing more.
any suggestions? what should i do? is it me or should I be going faster. (i'm 148 lbs, 5'6")
thanks
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Post by SpoonKiller on Jun 15, 2005 17:29:02 GMT -5
You might squeeze a few more KMPH with some Boppers.
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Post by SqUiRmInAtOr/ Phred 501 on Jun 15, 2005 17:31:46 GMT -5
???Lots of variables but the big 3 are the knobbies, and you oil level, and the old valve clearance. I've got virtually the same set up as you. Same jet, shim , but no knobbies.(Also after market exhaust ,but thats probably slowin me if anything) I had my oil high and could only get to around 56kpm. Once I got the oil right I can do 65 on a long enough stretch, a little faster under ideal conditions. The knobbies definately drag you down, and make sure you valves are within the spec. Some guys make this sound like a precise undertaking but you can only get as close as the shims you can buy from Honda. Mine measured a little tight but within spec. I tried the next size smaller and they buzzed so I'm still on the stock vale shims. My guess for your delema, smoothest tires you can find, (boppers look sweet) make sure oil is @ right level, and valve shims are right. 85 might be a tad rich too (mine is) so you could try an 80 and see if ya pull a little faster wide open. When I tried an 80 low & mid range sucked so until I wanna start snippin the diaphram spring I'll settle for a bit rich. Good Luck brother,remember wrenchin is half the fun!! ;D
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Post by Dandy Dan on Jun 15, 2005 17:43:34 GMT -5
Yeah I agree. For sure you're losing a couple km/hr with those tires. I suspect the valve shims are to blame for the rest but it could be your carb. For the valve shims, if your gaps are too big (lack of power and maybe buzzing at high speeds) you can cut little shims out of your feeler gauge to put under the stockers to test out how smaller gaps affect things. This is a pretty ghetto fix but it works good for not buying a lot of shims and only needed a couple of em. Once you get it right you can buy the right shims.
When you say aftermarket filter you mean like a POD filter right? Not a lawnmower filter for the stock box. I think from your pics I recall seeing the POD filter. Anyways, an 85 could be slightly rich up top depending on where you live but unless it's pretty hot I think it's your best bet. You could try an 80 but you'll need even more shim and a couple loops off the diaphram spring. If you've got a lot of free time give it a shot. Don't bother shimming or clipping with the 80 just see how it runs above 50km/hr. If it's better than you can worry about dialing it in for the full RPM range.
Phred: I've got a T-shirt that says the same thing as your quote (Know Jesus Know life etc...) from back when I was a councillour at a Bible camp.
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Post by SqUiRmInAtOr/ Phred 501 on Jun 15, 2005 18:28:48 GMT -5
Yeah I agree. Phred: I've got a T-shirt that says the same thing as your quote (Know Jesus Know life etc...) from back when I was a counselor at a Bible camp. ;D Dan guess we agree on more important things than Ruckas mods. It was mid 70s in Winnipeg today so 85 jet isn't way rich and definately not lean. Like I said, lots of variables but shims or oil level most likely. The cdi should let the engine go past 8k rpm. He's not very heavy and short (not a big wind-sock like me) so he should be 15-20kph faster even with the knobbies
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Post by lilruck on Jun 15, 2005 18:30:07 GMT -5
Try the stock jet, stock air box, no shim, and the lawn mower air filter. My Ruckus always runs the fastest with the best throttle response with the stock jetting? It only sounded louder with opening up the air box, shimming, and jetting.
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Post by SqUiRmInAtOr/ Phred 501 on Jun 15, 2005 18:40:50 GMT -5
Try the stock jet, stock air box, no shim, and the lawn mower air filter. My Ruckus always runs the fastest with the best throttle response with the stock jetting? It only sounded louder with opening up the air box, shimming, and jetting. What's yer top speed lil-feller? This dude has a high flow air filter (after market K&N / stock box is off!). With a 75 stock jet he'd be lucky to idle. Too much air, not enough gas. What mods do you have?
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Post by Dandy Dan on Jun 15, 2005 19:24:49 GMT -5
If you aren't going faster with the POD filter instead of the stock airbox then there's something wrong with your carb set up.
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Post by lilruck on Jun 15, 2005 19:40:58 GMT -5
I mean he should take that pod filter off and put the stock one back on to see if his runs better in stock form also. I have lighter roller weights and thats it I accels better than before and gets to 37 mph on flat ground and lil past 40 mph on hills, I weigh 210 lbs. I had a jet kit and an opened up air box and it seemed to ride faster and pull harder, but then I went riding with my friends ,who both have Rucks(stock)also, they were smoking me, mine was just louder. I think all the main jet and opening up my are box was wishful thinking in my head because if I didnt ride next to another Ruckus I wouldnt know mine was slower.We even traded Rucks and raced and he only weighs about 170lbs but his Ruck was still faster with me on it. I set it back up to stock form except for the roller weights and it was pulling faster and stronger, just not as loud.
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Post by SqUiRmInAtOr/ Phred 501 on Jun 15, 2005 20:07:38 GMT -5
I mean he should take that pod filter off and put the stock one back on to see if his runs better in stock form also. I have lighter roller weights and thats it I accels better than before and gets to 37 mph on flat ground and lil past 40 mph on hills, I weigh 210 lbs. I had a jet kit and an opened up air box and it seemed to ride faster and pull harder, but then I went riding with my friends ,who both have Rucks(stock)also, they were smoking me, mine was just louder. I think all the main jet and opening up my are box was wishful thinking in my head because if I didnt ride next to another Ruckus I wouldnt know mine was slower.We even traded Rucks and raced and he only weighs about 170lbs but his Ruck was still faster with me on it. I set it back up to stock form except for the roller weights and it was pulling faster and stronger, just not as loud. Vely intevesting I think you caved too quick on the jetting game. Without shimming the needle you lose acceleration @ mid throttle, but without removing the rev limiter (cdi) & shavin the spacer for a tad higher gear you might not beat a stocker @ top speed head to head. The lighter roller weights should make you quicker than a stocker off the line but won't do squat for top speed.(some claim to lose top speed) A tach helps you see what's happening. Your the first guy here that hasn't seen an improvement with more air and gas. It's a little tricky but it works. ;D All these folks can't be lyin. Tinker On!!Try,try again
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Post by Dandy Dan on Jun 15, 2005 20:48:53 GMT -5
Putting the stock box back on would tell him if the problem is indeed an air/fuel mixture problem or not. This way you could rule out (or discover) that it is the shims, oil height etc. However I do have to disagree with the opened up airbox being slower. When I first opened up mine a 95 jet with no shims was unrestrainable off the line. However it died around 33mph. When I dropped the jet to a 90 I lost some of that lower speed jump but gained some top end to about 37mph. Then I tried an 85 and it went to almost 40mph but it sucked at low speeds. I ended up adding a ton of shim and it ran decent at lower speeds and nice up top. I think you want either an 80 or 85 main jet (dependin on your altitude, climate and the extent of your airbox mods) and as much shim as possible and maybe 2 clips off the diaphram spring. With that except for the spring clip but with 3 stock rollers and 3, 6g I was running 10.5 sec. 0-30mph. Try that on your stocker and see how you compare. I was running times as low as 9.7 with the 95 jet. I haven't timed me lately the H.O. cam, CDI etc. I should sometime. Check out this link: battlescooter.proboards27.com/index.cgi?board=GeneralD&action=display&thread=1098839996
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Post by lilruck on Jun 15, 2005 21:25:16 GMT -5
I tried 80, 85, 90, 95, shimmend, unshimmend, and doubled shimmend. Nothing got me over 37 mph thats where I am stock. Maybe my gear ratio is higher or something because if I turn my head sideways while I am riding I can hear the enigne slamming against the rev limiter so even in stock form. I get the impression that the little engine wants to go more but is being held back by the cdi not the carb or intake. I am waiting on a CDI and Daytona variator I have ordered and will see what speeds I can get up to with those and the stock carb,intake setup.
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Post by chanito on Jun 15, 2005 21:48:06 GMT -5
Well the ruckus cames stock with a tuned intake and exhaust, so it is not easy to beat it, but if you set yours up right, it should be faster, my guess is that the timing is set up for a 8k hp peak, so when you get more air flowing (and more gas also) you move the hp curve down and it looses power at high rpm, that why is so important to nail the carb adjusment right.
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tygerfifteen
Ruckster
knobby tires,cdi, k/n filter,variators,rollers
Posts: 248
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Post by tygerfifteen on Jun 16, 2005 0:18:18 GMT -5
k did a couple of test runs with a fellow rucker here's the results.
stock(with shimmed needle and opened up stock airbox)
VS
aftermarket rucker( cdi, shimmed needle,k/n filter,daytona variator,roller weights, knobby tires)
off the hop i beat him in acceleration by almost 10-12 ruck lengths, but when we both hit the mid range, 40-50's we stay somewhat the same. on a straightaway i top 59-60 he does 56-7.
so i am definately faster than before but only in terms of acceleration, just not busting over 60-1 km. which i would like or thought i would get.
question 1. so i shaver the plastic piece a bit for the shim to fit , if I take the 1mm shim out it will still work effectively right?
question 2. with the jetting i tried 80 and it was bogging to get to 30, 85 seemed fine but have yet to try 90.
question 3. why would excess oil hamper top speed? i put a tiny fraction less than the suggested amount of litre from the site, but i took out about 10 half straw lengths out this afternoon, see what happens tomorrow.
I used to hit the light so past the 60km mark before the filter,variator,shock changes. I had only a cdi at this time.
hmmmmmmmmmmmm
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Post by Dandy Dan on Jun 16, 2005 0:47:55 GMT -5
1) No worries. The spring in there keeps everything tight. I had 2mm of shim and I cut the white plastic down quite a bit. I currently have no shims and it works good. 2) Don't base your main jet size evaluations on how your Ruckus runs up to 30mph. Go entirely on top speed and then once you've got the jet with the highest top speed shim the needle and clip the spring to make it run good across the board. The 90 might run good for ya at lower speeds but there's a really slim chance it'll get you as high a top speed as an 85 or an 80.
Re. the race analysis. It sounds like your variator is working good you've got the carb running good at lower speeds but I suspect you're losing top end because of three factors which are: You are getting a bit rich, your knobbies, your valve shims. I think you could hit 40mph even with the knobbies because with stock tires and the same mods as you I was going 42-23mph.
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Post by Dandy Dan on Jun 16, 2005 0:56:08 GMT -5
I tried 80, 85, 90, 95, shimmend, unshimmend, and doubled shimmend. Nothing got me over 37 mph thats where I am stock. Maybe my gear ratio is higher or something because if I turn my head sideways while I am riding I can hear the enigne slamming against the rev limiter so even in stock form. I get the impression that the little engine wants to go more but is being held back by the cdi not the carb or intake. I am waiting on a CDI and Daytona variator I have ordered and will see what speeds I can get up to with those and the stock carb,intake setup. The stock airbox is tuned to meet the air requirements of the stock head. The head is restricted by the valve size, the cam and the port size. When you mess with the intake you can add more flow at lower RPMs but the previously listed factors are really the bottleneck at higher RPMs so intake mods don't do much above 35mph. Because of this you can nicely boost performance off the line with these mods but you won't get too much of an increase at the top end. If all you do is open up the airbox or add a aftermarket filter you likely won't do better than 38-39mph. The CDI does work some magic. The Ruckus just feels like it wants to keep going instead of dying off around 35mph. Let us know what your results are with the CDI and variator. Maybe install them one at a time so you can see what difference each makes. I really doubt you're hitting the rev limiter at 37mph. That would be pretty far off and if it was the case you'd hear the occasion loud bang as your scoot backfires. On a normal Ruckus that happens around 41-42mph. It is possible but it seems unlikely. As for now go with the lowest carb jet that gives you 37mph as that will give you the best fuel economy.
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tygerfifteen
Ruckster
knobby tires,cdi, k/n filter,variators,rollers
Posts: 248
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Post by tygerfifteen on Jun 16, 2005 10:27:08 GMT -5
dan, thanks again
k
so I should shim the needle more and then clip the spring? right now i have an 85 I should try a 80 or 90 when I have time. if i clip the spring(the smalle one on the plastic with the needle?) to much I guess I can find another one anywhere right?
also could it be that there is a leak or I didn't plug something on my customized air filter setup? I just plugged the pair valves, should I have put a breather on them?
thanks
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Post by Dandy Dan on Jun 16, 2005 10:49:56 GMT -5
The PAIR valves should be a non-issue. Don't worry about them. It could be that there's an air leak somewhere but I'd guess it's just not tuned right. If you really think there's a leak you can buy some ether and spray it everyone but in the intake and if you hear it come alive you'll know the air is leaking somewhere.
I'd say 85 is your best bet for a main jet but you may be able to get away with an 80 if you add a lot of shim and shorten the spring. A new spring is 5-6$ at your Honda dealer. I doubt you'd want a 90. I was running a 90 previously but that was in the middle of winter. I'd try the 80 and see if it's as fast as the 85 for top speed. If it is then you'll get better fuel economy with the 80. You will need to do extensive shimming and clipping though because of the heads breathing restrictions at higher RPMs. One way to make it easier to tune is to put really light rolller weights in so that you're always running between 7-8K. This is a lazy way to do it but you'd only need to tune it for a small slice of the range. You would need less shimming and clipping with this cuz you don't really use the low RPMs. It would still suck at say 4k but you'd only be there for a sec so it wouldn't be as big of a deal.
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Post by lilruck on Jun 16, 2005 11:23:42 GMT -5
I went riding this morning and did speed some speed test. My 0-30mph is 11.2 secs. and I weigh 210 lbs. I got results from 10 flat twice was the best to 15. was the worse. The 15 sec was going up a little hill but I tried it to see what I would get. I believe 11. to 11.2 is my true speed. The times I dipped into the tens and the ten flats there must have been slight dips in the road or I jumped the throttle because those numbers seem too good. I saw on battlescooter were a stock Ruck with heavier weights than mine was running mid twelves.Most good runs were always between 11 flat or 11.3 sec.My two buddies weigh at least 30 lbs less than I do and they have completely stock Stock rucks except for the Briggs and straton air filter and they always beat me when we race, or take of from lights. Its the weight dif. because when we switch Rucks they still beet me and say mine feels like it takes of quicker. They had to work this morning but next time we ride I will get their time because I think their lack of fat will pick up some good time.
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Post by chanito on Jun 16, 2005 21:52:03 GMT -5
Totally agree with Dan, some tunning is necesary
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