Rejetting my Ruckus

[timberwolfmadcat]

I pulled the shim off the needle, im off to go try a 40-82 setup like DD was running, hopefully it should be close....

I dont know why i bothered rejetting before the cam, as after i put it in it screwed everything up

[timberwolfmadcat]

Ah, STUPID kyle....... way to suck on the bleeding air from the system again you think id learn, only had to overheat the coolant 3 times before i figured something was wrong. At first i thought it was b/c i was revving high w/ the 82 jet, i figured it was too lean, so i bumped it up to 85, same thing a km in. Hopefully i got it right this time..... otherwise ill be stalling on my way to work tommorow morning

[Dandy Dan]

I'm a bit confused how you keep letting air into your cooling system...is this through the coolant hoses that plug into the carb? I've never really paid attention to this and I've never really had a problem.

Anyways, good luck with your jetting. You might find 40/85 a bit boggy. I'm at 38/82 right now and just a smidge lean so I'm gonna try 40/82 for a bit more gas across the board. Make sure you give each setup a fair shot because the first 10 minutes or so when your engine is cold any setup runs lackluster. Go for a 20min ride and then pull the plug for a look. What intake are you running?

[timberwolfmadcat]

dandydan said:

I'm a bit confused how you keep letting air into your cooling system...is this through the coolant hoses that plug into the carb? I've never really paid attention to this and I've never really had a problem.

Anyways, good luck with your jetting. You might find 40/85 a bit boggy. I'm at 38/82 right now and just a smidge lean so I'm gonna try 40/82 for a bit more gas across the board. Make sure you give each setup a fair shot because the first 10 minutes or so when your engine is cold any setup runs lackluster. Go for a 20min ride and then pull the plug for a look. What intake are you running?

Im running the enclosed intake from BSS, oiled w/ a little bit of k&n oil. Im going back to the 40,82... my top end is limited w/ the 85, i might go up to up to 42, 82....... Air into my coolant system happens when i do the cam, i empty all the coolant from the system and replace it, however i cant seem to get the air bleeding right and its starting to piss me off , hopefully i got it this time, no overheat yet

[Dandy Dan]

If you go up to a 42 slow jet you'll probably want to drop to a 80 main. If an 85 is clearly too rich with a 40 then a 82 will be as well with a 42. With a 40, you probably want a main jet in the 78-82 range and with a 42 that would drop to 77-81 I'm guessing so you might find your top end lackluster like it was with the 85.

[timberwolfmadcat]

dandydan said:

If you go up to a 42 slow jet you'll probably want to drop to a 80 main. If an 85 is clearly too rich with a 40 then a 82 will be as well with a 42. With a 40, you probably want a main jet in the 78-82 range and with a 42 that would drop to 77-81 I'm guessing so you might find your top end lackluster like it was with the 85.

I went 42-78 right now, its pouring out, so i gotta wait for a little bit, have to rewarm the motor.

42-78
0-20 km's - Kickass
20-60 km's - Sucks, cuts out right at 20 km/h right on, boggy the whole way to 60
60-66 Decent, still not the accel im looking for, going slightly downhill, it was alright though, topped out at 66

Im gonna try a 42-80 setup next, i gave a quick little run down my culdesac which is slighty downhill and i bombed "edit profanity" to 45 in about 100 m, but coming back uphill it was boggy after 20

[Dandy Dan]

Have you learned the art of being able to tell if your rich or lean just by listening to the exhaust? It's a lot easier with a louder, aftermarket exhaust, but I can usually guess right becuase lean gives you a sharper exhaust not that is kinda cutting out so it's jagged and rich is a warmer, softer note that isn't cutting out it just sounds bored and lazy.

Anyways, Sanjuro found success with a 38/72 which seems really lean to me but maybe it's better is his hotter climate. It's tough to say whether you're rich or lean but if I had to guess I'd still say rich. Maybe give a 75 a shot because increasing the slow jet from a 35 to a 42 is quite a bit more gas.

Your performance results (good to 20, lackluster over that) are similar to what I'm experiencing right now. It's hard to dial it in because I've only got saturday mornings to work on it and I'm usually so busy making variator tools etc that all I have time to do is switch it once and then ride like that for the weekend.

[timberwolfmadcat]

All right, i managed to get some mad tuning done yesterday, my internet is sketchy out here though....

Ive tried every setup with the 42, 75-85, im now running a 40-82, shim on needle, shes running very, very well from 30 on up to 71, got a lot of power up there. I have a little bit of a hiccup at 20 km/h-30 km/h. Its so lean at idle, when it dies and i twist the throttle to try and save it it pops. I have a feeling i need to adjust the Straight Dia and make it a smidgen richer and then ill be good to go.....

Which brings me to the next point: Where is the Straight Dia located, or whatever jet i may need to adjust down there. Im still tinkering with it, i think i may take that shim off the needle and try cutting a couple coils off the diaphram spring, as my ruckus will be staying like this for a while

The 40-82 is for sure the ticket on the top end, i love my up top performance, i regularly hit 71, even a little uphill i was still accelerating over 65 km/h

[timberwolfmadcat]

Heres the setups and what i felt/ observed:

42-78

Idle - Rough(Every one seems to be rough for some reason)
0-20 Excellent
20-60 Struggles, cuts out, bogs
60-66 Alright/Good

42-80

0-25 - Excellent
25-60 Struggles, no power
60-65 Not great but alright
65-71 Alright

42-82
Idle - Rich, black, possible dry foul
0-25 good
25-30 Gargles
30-50 Slow but ok
50-60 Alright
60-71 Decent

40-82

0-20 good
20-50 Slow
50-60 Alright
60-71 Excellent

40-82 shim

0-10 good
10-30 Garbage
30-60 Above stock
60-71 Excellent

[Dano1]

I've been following this thread for a while since I plan on doing several of the great mods you gents have. So first off: Hello; my name is Dan...and I'm a Ruck-a-holic.

While I wouldn't claim to be an expert at jetting (more of a lost art), I did have some success on my 2-stroke dirt bike racing career. One thing I haven't read yet is if you have modified the shape of the carb needle. On my race bikes the Mikunis typically had different clip positions for the needle that would be the same as shimming. Shimming just move the entire taper of the needle up, but several times you fall in the middle of the two position. It looks like Timber is seeing some of this with the 40/82 with & w/o the shim notes. I had about six custom needles I would use for different tracks (typically altitude) and types of races (in a race with long straights that go into immediate braking, I would taper the needle to ease the transition from wide open to no gas since the engine is still spinning to the moon and you just cut off its gas/oil supply...2-stroke thing)

A few tips for the adventersome:
1) The material comes off very quickly. I'd chuck mine up in a drill press, slow speed and use some very fine wet sand paper with light oil.
2) After you determine the section you want to reshape, tape off the others and keep moving back and forth (or up and down). smooth any rough transition spots...lightly. using that blue stain works good too, but I never had any around when I needed it.
3) Try and really think about where you need to richen and visualize it onto the needle.

It has the potential to be a very cheap solution...unless you need to go backwards.
So tip 4) Buy some extra needles ($$??) ahead of time.

Documenting the results is huge...great work there Timber!

Sorry for the lengthy speach , but this is something to consider and add to your bag of tricks.

Best regards,

Dan

[timberwolfmadcat]

Ok, so she's rich in the midrange. Whe i drove it home, and it was colder out, she was absolutely booking @$$ like ive never seen any ruckus before!!! And then when it warmed up things just sucked, i bogged from 20-50/55, and then all was good 55 up. I think my straight DIA actually may be too rich, as when it got warmer, it got worse bogging wise, and when it was colder it was almost gone

[timberwolfmadcat]

Ive now taken the shim off the needle, and im willing to say its running almost identical to the way it was with the shim on Confusing it is, ill see if i can find a smaller shim to put in there, or maybe cut a spring or 2 off the diaphram. With the needle off, however, its absolutely brutal from 0-30 km/h, struggling is an understatement.... it kinda cuts out and grabs, jerking motion kinda..... What can i adjust on the low end to change this

[chanito]

I do not want to sound like a jerk, but you have being playing with the slow jet and you have never even mention adjusting you idle mixture, which you are suposse to do everytime you change the idle jet, so my question is. Did you adjusted your idle mixture when you swap slow jets?
Not adjusting the idle mixture creates a sudden rich condition in off idle accel, the proper way to adjust it requires a tach or a very good ear, on the side of the carb there is a screw with a special head, you will need a special tool or you can make one out of a small tubing and turn the screw counterclockwise until you get the highest idle speed and then readjust your idle speed with the trhottle screw back to 2k, and then go do your runs ;D

[chanito]

Great post Dano1, modding the needle have being in the back of my mind for a while, the problem is doing it by ear is very hard to duplicate when you get it right, also since the ruckus is a 4-cycle engine is a lot more forgiving on the needle, also the top of the needle have a build in holder so holding it in a bench drill will require some creativity or it wil wobble

[timberwolfmadcat]

chanito said:

I do not want to sound like a jerk, but you have being playing with the slow jet and you have never even mention adjusting you idle mixture, which you are suposse to do everytime you change the idle jet, so my question is. Did you adjusted your idle mixture when you swap slow jets?
Not adjusting the idle mixture creates a sudden rich condition in off idle accel, the proper way to adjust it requires a tach or a very good ear, on the side of the carb there is a screw with a special head, you will need a special tool or you can make one out of a small tubing and turn the screw counterclockwise until you get the highest idle speed and then readjust your idle speed with the trhottle screw back to 2k, and then go do your runs ;D

Constructive critism is good chanito, i havent done anything with the idle mixture yet, i think its rich, bc as it cools off out here, it seems to lessen that lagging at about 25-30, it starts lagging at around 15-25 km/h, and it doesnt cut out when i crack the throttle off the line How about a how to on that handy idle mixture tool

Just quickly explain one more time how to do this idle adjustment
1) Counterclockwise till highest idle(I assume this is the idle screw)
2) Readjust idle speed back to 2K with which screw ?Idle mixture or throttle adjustment (One on the top

[chanito]

Actually you are right, it should be clockwise on the idle mixture screw, which is on the side of the carburator facing the variator, until you reach the highest idle speed, and then you adjust your idle speed screw on the side facing the muffler (the screw you can reach thru the hole in the floorpan)

[Dandy Dan]

This idle mixture adjustment is something I haven't done either but I plan to do now. It seems quite straight forward to just dial it in for the max idle revs and then readjust your idle to 2000rpm. Everyone should make sure if they do this though that their engine is warmed up because things really change in the first 5 min. Like Timber, I'd like some more info on that idle tool. I know this was posted somewhere but I forget where.

About the carb needle, this sounds like a lot of work and I'm satisified with mine right now so I doubt I'll do it but it is something to consider. Honda actually designed a new carb needle for the Ruckus for 2006 which is more gradually tapered than the needle found in 2003-2005 Ruckus's. People retrofitting this have reported quite postive results.

Timber, I did another jetting adjustment this weekend and I'm very stoked with my setup. Since our engines and conditions are quite similar I'll expand:

I went from an 38/82 to a 38/85 this weekend. The 38/82 was great off the line but mediocre up top. My new 38/85 should be very similar to your 40/82+shim on the top end but a little leaner off the line. This setup is on the brink of being a little rich across the board because I've got a little more zip on colder days (+15) than hot days (+25) but it's still great regardless.

0-30km/hr: Very Solid...I normally get to 30km/hr in 3 seconds.
30-40km/hr: Like stock which is means it takes me about 2 seconds to get to 40 from 30.
40-50km/hr: Solid: It takes me 3 seconds to do this...I get to 50km/hr (31mph) in 7.5-8.5 sec seconds...stock was 8.5-9.5 seconds).

50-70km/hr: Unreal, this is the most power I've ever had on the top end. Sitting upright taking the full force of the wind I'm cruising around 68km/hr in nice conditions and 65km/hr or so in somewhat windy conditions. If I tuck I can get to the 75km/hr redline easily in about 5 seconds. Normally, I'm cruising sitting up and then up medium hills I tuck so I can hold that speed.

I love how the Polini has me revving at only 8100rpm at 68km/hr so I don't feel bad like I used to when I had a CDI and I'd be zipping along past the redline all day. Normally, I reserve speeds from 70-75km/hr for passing and impressing people and cruise from 65-70km/hr to be nice to my engine.

[timberwolfmadcat]

dandydan said:

This idle mixture adjustment is something I haven't done either but I plan to do now. It seems quite straight forward to just dial it in for the max idle revs and then readjust your idle to 2000rpm. Everyone should make sure if they do this though that their engine is warmed up because things really change in the first 5 min. Like Timber, I'd like some more info on that idle tool. I know this was posted somewhere but I forget where.

About the carb needle, this sounds like a lot of work and I'm satisified with mine right now so I doubt I'll do it but it is something to consider. Honda actually designed a new carb needle for the Ruckus for 2006 which is more gradually tapered than the needle found in 2003-2005 Ruckus's. People retrofitting this have reported quite postive results.

Timber, I did another jetting adjustment this weekend and I'm very stoked with my setup. Since our engines and conditions are quite similar I'll expand:

I went from an 38/82 to a 38/85 this weekend. The 38/82 was great off the line but mediocre up top. My new 38/85 should be very similar to your 40/82+shim on the top end but a little leaner off the line. This setup is on the brink of being a little rich across the board because I've got a little more zip on colder days (+15) than hot days (+25) but it's still great regardless.

0-30km/hr: Very Solid...I normally get to 30km/hr in 3 seconds.
30-40km/hr: Like stock which is means it takes me about 2 seconds to get to 40 from 30.
40-50km/hr: Solid: It takes me 3 seconds to do this...I get to 50km/hr (31mph) in 7.5-8.5 sec seconds...stock was 8.5-9.5 seconds).

50-70km/hr: Unreal, this is the most power I've ever had on the top end. Sitting upright taking the full force of the wind I'm cruising around 68km/hr in nice conditions and 65km/hr or so in somewhat windy conditions. If I tuck I can get to the 75km/hr redline easily in about 5 seconds. Normally, I'm cruising sitting up and then up medium hills I tuck so I can hold that speed.

I love how the Polini has me revving at only 8100rpm at 68km/hr so I don't feel bad like I used to when I had a CDI and I'd be zipping along past the redline all day. Normally, I reserve speeds from 70-75km/hr for passing and impressing people and cruise from 65-70km/hr to be nice to my engine.

HAHA!! You and me ride very similar!! I chill at about 55 km/h right now, and i love to crack the throttle, especially a little downhill and just blast by people at 71 km/h...... After theyve rode you for 6 km's b/c your only doing 5 km/h over the speed limit...i cant wait to get the polini installed, im sure my performance will be wicked, its pretty fast on the top end, i can cruise at 65-68 sitting up, i can easily hit 71 on any flat with a twist of the throttle and no wind. IM SO GLAD I GOT THE 06. I have never been so satisfied with any purchase in my life.

The 40-82 Shim on the top was actually worse than the 40-82 on its own, another reason why i went back to the no shim, it was running like crap and stalling in warm weather..... I really would love to get it running well down low, b/c id like to see that accel when i actually get going from 0-30 km/h, and i have those revs up there on the low end......

I should give this 38-85 thing a shot, maybe after i see what my performance is like with the 40-82 dialed in on the low end

[Dandy Dan]

timberwolfmadcat said:

I'M SO GLAD I GOT THE 06. I have never been so satisfied with any purchase in my life.

Yeah it's awesome after riding an old Ruckus around. You're still the slowest vehicle on the road but everything seems so much faster in comparison so it's a lot more fun. IMO, you can't fully appreciate an 06 unless you've owned an older one.

[chanito]

There you go, giving me this crazy ideas to cheat on Katrina with a younger model
YOU HOMEWRECKER