Supercharger information thread

[thunderstRuck]

I saw this on ebay, its for a suzuki 3 cyl I think. It got me thinking about the merits of installing one on the ruck? Any professional opinions?

[Dandy Dan]

There have been a few threads about superchargers in general if you do a search like...

battlescooter.proboards27.com/index.cgi?board=De&action=display&thread=1151515231

I believe the consensus is that we don't have enough exhaust gases to run a turbo and no one makes a supercharger small enough. I believe the smallest one out there is for 125cc.

[thunderstRuck]

I'm sure it can be restricted. Time to hit the Library.

[chanito]

Superchargers use power to produce power, so they should match the size or demand of the engine to make them produce more power than what they use, having such a big unit might require more power than it can produce, just my two cents

[thunderstRuck]

This is an interesting bit about a really cheap supercharger. I just copied & pasted it from a supercharger website.


OK, here it is. Please don't laugh until you've tried
this, it really works. We've used these things for many
different jobs where we needed a lot of volume at low- to
moderate pressure levels, and they almost always work out
very well.

All you need is a "smog pump"! I assume everyone knows
what I am referring to. In the USA, at least, almost every
new car has been required to have one of these since around
1970, (by government regulations) to pump air into the
exhaust manifolds, which supposedly facilitates more
efficient conversion of the unburned hydrocarbons as the
mixture passes through the catalytic converter.

If we build them into a machine, we by them new, but
there are piles of them in junk yards which you can actually
get for as little as $5.00 each. People don't realize just
how efficient these little pumps are. At 8,000 rpm you can
feel a strong air blast from a one inch pipe attached to one
of these standing over twenty five feet away, they will
actually produce up to sixty pounds or more (for a VERY
short time), and if you block the air flow completely the
pump will stop a five horsepower electric motor.

Most of them take in air though an impeller right behind
the drive pulley, which is fine for most purposes, but some
are equipped with a separate inlet port complete with a
small air filtering device,- which can prove useful in
certain circumstances.

You can even hook these things up "back to back", and
the first one will drive the second,- with amazing
efficiency. If you get the kind equipped with both inlet
and outlet ports, you can the make a closed loop and either
one will drive the other,- in either direction. There's a
novel way to transmit power! If you do try this, be sure to
include an intercooler in the plumbing,- the only thing I've
found that will ruin these pumps, is heat!

Some of the pumps I'm describing have more capacity than
others. I like to play with the ones from 350 cid Chevrolet
police cars, or 454 cid trucks. It takes four to six of
these to provide ample boost for the average V8, but one or
two should suffice for most motorcycle engines. I built a
setup using these on a small V8 once, and used a automotive
air conditioner pump, electric clutch & pulley, so that it
was not necessary to wast fuel driving the arrangement until
it was needed.

90% of the pump body is aluminum, so they are relatively
light, and it's not difficult to polish them up and
radically alter their appearance. By the time you've done
that, and added a aluminum timing pulley,- no one will ever
guess what it is/was, or how little you have invested.

Be careful how much intake pressure you apply to a high
compression engine. You probably shoudn't try to go over 8
- 10 pounds on any engine with a 9 :1 compression ratio or
higher. We attached one of these to a friend's son's
go-cart engine (Briggs & Stratton) and the power increase
was very impressive,-- the kid decided he'd like even more
power, and changed to a larger primary pulley. I'm not sure
if it was the extra compression or detonation, but it
didn't run very long after that before the complete cylinder
assembly separated and exploded off the engine block (no
kidding!),-- kind of reminded me of pictures I've seen of
Blown(up) top fuel drag engines.

If anyone is not familiar with these types of pumps, or
has any trouble understanding how they can be attached,-
driven, etc..., let me know, and I'll post a photograph of
one mounted on a prototyping test setup.


--
Steven A. Richmond Sr. < RIEL inc. >
[e-mail]
www.richmondlabs.com

What do y'all think?

[Dandy Dan]

Interesting but don't you need some sort of blow-off valve? It sounds like there's potential there but I don't have the expertise to make something like that work.

[chanito]

The Briggs and stratton is 7.5 to 1 compression, so it is easily supercharged, ours is 11.9 to one, even though i doubt the air pump will produce a power surplus, it would not be a good idea unless you plan on using water injection

[ZOOMER46]

not sure if anyone else here is into aviation,but the guy who is checking out my spare 4v head said he knew of some guys who were into honda monkeybikes,and they made a supercharger from an airpump from a bell jetranger helicopter.
i only have a ratings for r22 and r44 but not turbine stuff like the bell,so i'm not sure what exactly this pump is for,but i am flying tomorrow and will ask a technician what it may of been, as they have most types of heli there,

#this thread may run yet!

[thunderstRuck]

What's this, a supercharger on a 50cc honda?.....


webpage: www.elsberg-tuning.dk/the%20bikes.html

[chanito]

Thanks for the info, this guy, is doing his homework and still has not find a small enough supercharger, it might be time for someone to come up with a custom made one

[thunderstRuck]

Does anyone know where to start? The positioning and bracketry seems elementary, but how would one determine the amount of boost needed for a 50cc? Is there a homegrown way of measuring airflow from one of these pumps? How will it effect jetting? Will cooling it be necessary?

[chanito]

First you nee4d to make sure you can keep the engine together, that means you will need to replace the stock head bolts with bigger 8mm bolts instead of the factory 6mms, have someone fabricate you a sandwich type head spacer to lower compression into the 7-8 to 1 ratio at the most, and go get one of those expensive MSD cdi boxes, as neither the factory or any aftermarket CDI will fire that high of a compression.
Most air pumps or superchargers have a CFM (Cubic Feet per Minute) rating at a certain pressure output at a given rpm and then you just try to match your demands by over or under-drive the pump, i would start with a 5 psi boost, but i doubt you can get away with even that
It would be a lot safer to get the engine to rev higher by head and valve train mods Just my two cents

[thunderstRuck]

chanito said:

First you nee4d to make sure you can keep the engine together, that means you will need to replace the stock head bolts with bigger 8mm bolts instead of the factory 6mms, have someone fabricate you a sandwich type head spacer to lower compression into the 7-8 to 1 ratio at the most, and go get one of those expensive MSD cdi boxes, as neither the factory or any aftermarket CDI will fire that high of a compression.
Most air pumps or superchargers have a CFM (Cubic Feet per Minute) rating at a certain pressure output at a given rpm and then you just try to match your demands by over or under-drive the pump, i would start with a 5 psi boost, but i doubt you can get away with even that
It would be a lot safer to get the engine to rev higher by head and valve train mods Just my two cents

I don't understand what you mean by a CDI won't fire that high of a compression
Is it possible to remove material from the top of the piston to lower compression?

[thunderstRuck]

One more link...anyone know german?
www.scooterhulp.com/6435-post1.html

[Kami no Chiizu]

It's not German, it's Dutch.

If you go to babelfish.altavista.com, you can enter in the URL and select Dutch to English and it'll translate it.

[chanito]

granty said:

chanito said:

First you nee4d to make sure you can keep the engine together, that means you will need to replace the stock head bolts with bigger 8mm bolts instead of the factory 6mms, have someone fabricate you a sandwich type head spacer to lower compression into the 7-8 to 1 ratio at the most, and go get one of those expensive MSD cdi boxes, as neither the factory or any aftermarket CDI will fire that high of a compression.
Most air pumps or superchargers have a CFM (Cubic Feet per Minute) rating at a certain pressure output at a given rpm and then you just try to match your demands by over or under-drive the pump, i would start with a 5 psi boost, but i doubt you can get away with even that
It would be a lot safer to get the engine to rev higher by head and valve train mods Just my two cents

I don't understand what you mean by a CDI won't fire that high of a compression
Is it possible to remove material from the top of the piston to lower compression?

The coil need power to make power, the higher the compresion and the faster the engine goes, the harder is for the spark to jump across the gap in the spark plug, as far as i know the stock CDI gives 80 volts, the posh 95, an MSD box will give from 350 to 400 volts as it is the stock has a hard time giving a spark pass 8k, so on 06' and later they use a dual CDI instead of a single, but i do not think the stock or the posh will fire the spark after 9k with a compresion higher than stock

[thunderstRuck]

I would think that keeping the engine below 9000rpm would be a good thing . The power increase should be right across the board, so revving the engine so high should be unneccessary. I've been looking into a smog pump from an aircooled vw. Heat seems to be the biggest issuse with these devices and the vw pump operates without being cooled in any way...although it never spins above 5000rpm either. I wish I had a CSI style computer to "cross reference the NPS50 engine with available smog pumps to estimate boost"....

[ZOOMER46]

great work granty!

for the first time,the supercharger question ismaking headway.

but i think to remove piston top material is dangerous and it will be weak and not flow as well.

also at the base of the link ,it said the peugeot jetforce compressor was a 50cc like ours,but it was a 125cc in fact and had to power outputs dependng on your license in europe,
so the cc relavance is not perfect.

heres a link www.jet-force.co.uk/reviews.htm

[thunderstRuck]

Okay mofos, chew on this one. ;D

Here's an interesting link on supercharging:
www.edstroementerprises.com/jep/index.htm

[ZOOMER46]

must be a pitbike,

great pic !!