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Post by Dandy Dan on Oct 1, 2005 21:06:12 GMT -5
Do you mean that if we went through with this they would be willing to create to variations of the piston so some people could go 4V while others stayed 2V? Jason told me today that he might be interested in getting on board for this one and doing the work in peoples engines if they want. This would be good because we'd likely have more people interested in this if they knew there was a shop out there that was willing to professionally do the work. I also emailed him if he knows where we can get bigger rings. It seems to me that they must exist cuz our scoot is 38mm x 44mm but most 50cc's are more like 40x42 ish so if a 50cc scoot/bike has a overbore kit then the rings might be suitable. Does Yamaha make 50cc 4-stroke dirt bike?
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Post by chanito on Oct 2, 2005 7:54:33 GMT -5
:-/What i mean is that making a special dome for the piston would require "us" to investigate the best shape for this dome, so it will have six relieves in order to be for both vertions, having this kind of pistons develop would be very costly and the vertion for the 2 valve or the vertion for the 4 valve will out peform it, it would make a lot more sense to make one vertion of each Just curious, so Abe is going to install bigger valves and resize the cylinder at the same time or just resize the cyl, i am just about getting ready to give up on this because i feel it is taking me nowhere
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Post by Dandy Dan on Oct 2, 2005 8:17:53 GMT -5
Well he asked me which people would be more interested in: A 4V conversion or larger valves and I said probably the 4V kit but I think he'd do either. Two larger valves might be cheaper depending on what he would charge for labour.
I agree that a version of each would be better than a hybrid do-it-all version. Perhaps just a 2V piston would be the way to go and we could get Abe to enlarge ours if we felt it was worth it.
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Post by chanito on Oct 2, 2005 11:00:37 GMT -5
OK you guys take over, i will go back to my exhaust
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Post by timberwolfmadcat on Oct 2, 2005 12:59:08 GMT -5
Crazy idea here, but golf carts are 4 stroke , possibly use parts from them??
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Post by timberwolfmadcat on Oct 2, 2005 18:31:25 GMT -5
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angelis
n00b Ruckster
The one and only
Posts: 33
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Post by angelis on Oct 2, 2005 19:08:29 GMT -5
Yamaha has their TT-R50 that's a 50cc 4-stroke. It's stock bore is 36mm, which is smaller than our's, but there is an 84cc big-bore kit available.(Straight from Yamaha no less.) It's quite the complete kit though, coming with a new head, cam, intake, carb, etc; so it is pricey at $900US.
The piston is a 47mm unit, which seems too big for our's. It'd bring a Ruckus up to 76cc, but would our cylinder walls be too thin then? If not, maybe we can order just the piston and rings for that kit.
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Post by Dandy Dan on Oct 3, 2005 16:21:57 GMT -5
Yeah I'm stoked for you to finish the exhausts too. How long do you think till you've got some made? Make sure they look sexy...
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Post by chanito on Oct 3, 2005 18:46:41 GMT -5
I got the pipes but haven't got arount to bent them or make the flanges for them, my wife is getting on my case about them clattering the patio and might bent them by hitting me over the head with them, so i plan to get to them this weekend, but to finnish them about a month or so
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Post by Dandy Dan on Oct 4, 2005 22:17:56 GMT -5
We need to look into getting piston rings from a Honda CD70. The CD70 is a 70cc 4-stroke that uses 42mm rings stock. A bore of this size would give us about 61cc. Your thoughts Chanito?
Timberwolfmadcat: What years was the CD70 made?
If Honda still stocks parts for these all we'd have to do is order a few sets...this could be a dynamite lead.
Edit: A bit of research indicates the CD70 is still being made but it's never (I think) been sold in North America. Would importing Japanese rings be a total pain in the anus? The language barrier sucks.
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Post by timberwolfmadcat on Oct 5, 2005 12:31:44 GMT -5
CD70 is still being made now 1979 till now, found out originally from the CMG online review, I saw CD 70 and honda, the second # almost always implies engine size, so i figured id look into it, see what the engine rings size are, sure enough,the bore is around 42mm(41.78 or something or rather, thus rings being similar size right?
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Post by timberwolfmadcat on Oct 5, 2005 12:32:23 GMT -5
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Post by Dandy Dan on Oct 5, 2005 16:43:39 GMT -5
Was it ever sold in North America? That would make getting parts a whole lot easier cuz you should be able to ordr them from any Honda dealer.
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Post by timberwolfmadcat on Oct 5, 2005 21:04:53 GMT -5
dunno, ill go to meh bike store and check er out, gotta go get meh reflective visor for my helm anyway
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chnk8
n00b Ruckster
Posts: 7
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Post by chnk8 on Oct 5, 2005 21:06:15 GMT -5
No chanito don't give up, I say carry on with your idea of your 1/2 Hp or whatever. I say if you want to spend that much money on the 4 valve conversion, i'd just get a bigger bike. I mean like seriously here, ya sure its a good idea and everyone is down for more Hp and torque but what about the people that don't have that kind of money and time. or just build 2 seperate things and let people choose so they don't waste there time taking it apart and back together 3-4 times. and I also think its more logical for the 1/2 Hp thing cuz then you don't have to change your insurance and its almost next to impossible to tell that the bike is over 50cc to the insurance guy. and don't all the upgrades add up too like the cdi and pulley and stuff and the cam plus the 1/2hp? or no? i mean like lets say your ruckus is bone stock and you just put the 1/2hp thingy in, can't you get way more out of it when you add a cdi and pulley to it and ''edit profanity" witht he rollers? to me another 4-5mph gain sounds awesome to me since I go by Kms. And dandy dan I'm not knocking you down, your good "edit profanity". its just that its too much time/work and $money$ for most of us. I mean wasn't the purpose of buying a scooter is saving money??? and last but not least reliability? i mean the ruckus is almost biult virually maintenance free and its simple. why not keep it that way? oh and chanito, your english is good and i would like one kit and since if the jazz motor is literally the same and shpould fit in that also i will take 2. 1 for me and my friend. and my friend is also like dandy dan, crazy about power,LOL. and we work at honda and we have asked about the same things you guys are and they won't make a big bore kit for ruckus or even a better cam etc... hahahaha bastards. like don't they know the ruckus is popular why don't they make more aftermarket parts for them jeez?!
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Post by timberwolfmadcat on Oct 5, 2005 21:30:11 GMT -5
www.atlasgrouppk.com/aeil/pistons.htm heres a manufacturer i found for the CD 70 parts, dunno where there located, again, have to talk to my bike shop, see if i can get one of those 42 mm rings. and chnk8, i go by km/h to, and i dun care how much i gotta spend(keep it below the big ruck at 7K, still got about 5K to play with) i wanna see the look on ppls faces when i go zippin by em on my little ruck. SOO much better than the Vino, step down in power, step up in cool cruising ability.
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Post by Dandy Dan on Oct 5, 2005 21:40:38 GMT -5
I agree that the point of a scooter is cheap, fun and reliable but I do believe you can keep these fundamentals and still get more power. Since I've been modifying my scoot my milage has only increased. I can get 200kms BEFORE the gas light comes on, during a good tank. Usually I get about 185kms. Plus my reliability is still great because a 4-stroke 49cc engine is relatively low stressed and can handle some enhancing without risking much. Any problems I have had have been caused simply by my mechanical rookie-ness and making mistakes like not tightening my variator all the way and not replacing the headgasket when I was in there.
Some of you may do this differently but one of the ways I justify souping up my scoot is that I am still saving on insurance vs. a bigger scoot. For me to insure an 80cc scoot is about 500$ vs. 300$ for my 50cc. You can make your own decisions on this but I'm not planning on telling my insurance company that it's modified. Maybe I would if I did a major obvious engine swap but for totally concealed and not extemely different mods like the camshaft I choose to save my self the money and hassle.
Buying a bigger bike is an easier and cheaper way to get more power but I justify my mods because I'm saving money on fuel and insurance compared to an 80cc. The difference between my Ruckus and my brothers 80cc 2-stroke Honda Aero is about 200$/fuel and 200$/year insurance plus mod's are fun to do and get you there faster so If I spend 400$ /year modifying it then I'm still ahead plus I'm having more fun and getting places quicker. Oh and the difference is more than 1/2 hp. Abe measured his a 6hp vs. 4.9 stock with just the cam, cdi, exhaust, bigger carb and porting. With a big bore kit and 4-valve I bet you could get to 7hp if it was properly adjusted which is a 40% increase.
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Post by timberwolfmadcat on Oct 6, 2005 10:33:54 GMT -5
hehe, yer paying 300$ a year for insurance, haha, 70$ a year CAD here, hehe(57$US)
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B
n00b Ruckster
Posts: 36
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Post by B on Oct 6, 2005 11:50:10 GMT -5
I know this is off topic, but while you guys are bringing up insurance, i had to respond. I pay $40 USD /yr for full coverage on my scoot. this includes everything including theft and vandalism, which i think is important to have on a scooter, and nice medical coverage. but here is the cool part. when i got the policy, i was able to put a multi-vehicle discount on my truck's policy which saved me $220/yr. so in the end, i got a fully covered scoot added to my policy, and my insurance bill went DOWN $180.
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Post by Dandy Dan on Oct 6, 2005 16:10:17 GMT -5
It seems like a lot of people on here pay less than me but whenever I shop around it seems I can't do better than about 340$ cdn. It could be ontario regulations though that don't let us call it a moped. This thread is getting hijacked so we should get back on topic but if anyone from ontario wants to post please do so in one of the insurance threads under general discussion.
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