|
|
Post by andr01dm on Dec 6, 2008 17:26:23 GMT -5
Hi all.
Just wondering if anyone has measured the amount of force required to move the gap between the two halves of the clutch pully from fully closed to fully open. The stock clutch of an '08 Ruckus that is.
Ta. ^_^
|
|
|
|
Post by Dandy Dan on Dec 13, 2008 2:00:57 GMT -5
I haven't heard of anyone measuring it. It would be hard to measure because you can't really do it without the variator spinning. If the variator isn't spinning then the belt won't ride up smoothly. You'd have to squeeze and squeeze and then it would finally jump up.
|
|
|
|
Post by chanito on Dec 13, 2008 9:11:07 GMT -5
 No, it is kind of easy, you will need to get some way of pulling the outer half of the back pulley in at least 3 points (to make sure you pull evenly) and then use a fishing scale to measure the force require to pull it out all the way  The question is Why do you need to find that out? 
|
|
|
|
Post by Dandy Dan on Dec 30, 2008 2:45:49 GMT -5
I don't think the belt is going to ride up normally if you just squeeze the variator because the belt grips the walls so well that it wouldn't really ride up. I think it has to be rolling through the variator to gradually work it's way up.
|
|
|
|
Post by seansean on Jan 28, 2009 1:25:14 GMT -5
I also was wondering about this lately. More to the point, I was wondering if there was a way to measure the strength of the stock Contra spring VS the yellow or red aftermarket ones? Also- If I wanted to shim the stock Contra spring to create slightly more stiffness in it, is there anything I should know or keep in mind when doing that?
|
|
|
|
Post by Dandy Dan on Jan 28, 2009 20:26:24 GMT -5
You're referring to the compression spring in the rear clutch I take it? Perhaps you could see how much weight you have to set on the spring to compression it one inch? Then you'd have a lbs/inch spec for each spring.
Be careful with shimming the spring.....if you shim it then the clutch may not be able to open all the way which would hurt your top end.
Malossi makes a couple of these springs for the Ruckus. They make a yellow one ('reinforced') and a stiffer red 'racing' one. I've tried both and the racing one was the only one that made a significant difference. You may need a bit heavier roller weights to counter the stiff spring or you'll rev to high. A stiffer clutch spring does the same thing as lighter roller weights.....both mods slow down how fast your scooter upshifts. The downside with a stiffer spring is that it wears out your drivebelt quite a bit faster so you really need a kevlar belt. A stock belt will only last 1-3K miles.
|
|
|
|
Post by seansean on Jan 29, 2009 12:09:10 GMT -5
Okay - so are all the aftermarket springs the same length but different stiffnesses? So that adding a shim to the stock would essentially lengthen the spring, which would be 'no-so-good'? I had the idea after seeing that some of the aftermarket clutch spring kits for the Zuma come with spacers to do what I was talking about. I already ordered the yellow spring and it should be here within a few days. I am not looking to make a significant difference, only to compliment the KN with 5.5g rollers and to make the pick up that the KN has in the lower range, last all the way up to the 10.5K limiter I have. The KN really tapers off at 30 and flats in the winter with Big Carb,Exhaust,Variator,CDI and lightened flywheel, I can only get to about 43. Maybe 46 in summer... I will be doing the Big Bore soon and would like something that helps accel but doesn't limit top end TOO much. Thanks DD
|
|
|
|
Post by Dandy Dan on Jan 29, 2009 22:15:16 GMT -5
When you're accelerating on your Ruckus, the rear clutch is compressing the spring and thus letting the belt ride down further like a wedgie. So the ramp plates are moving further apart.The rear clutch has a physical limit to how far it can move, which is roughly about 20mm of total movement. What you need to ensure is that your compression spring can be compressed atleast this much so that your clutch doesn't stop moving before it reaches it's physical limit.
I'm not sure how much the stock spring can compress but it's probably not a whole lot more than what the clutch needs it to. You might be able to compress it a few mm but realistically, it's not going to make a big difference.
Going with a stiffer compression spring does basically the same thing as lighter rollers. Both mods make it harder for the drivetrain to upshift so that you wind up revving a bit higher as you accelerate. It's important to understand the balance that occurs between the variator and the rear clutch. When the variator weights squeeze the variator shut to push the belt outwards, it also needs to pull the belt down in the rear clutch to free up enough slack for the upshifting in the variator. So lighter weights make it harder for the variator to upshift but so does a stiffer compression spring in the rear clutch.
So if you toss in a stiffer compression spring you might need to go with heavier rollers too or you might wind up revving too high. How fast your scooter upshifts is all about the equilibrium between your roller weights and the rear compression spring.
The nice thing about tossing in a stiffer rear spring is that it makes your drivetrain a bit more responsive. Say you used the stock rear compression spring with 5g rollers and noticed that your Ruckus accelerates at the same RPMs as it did with a super stiff compression spring and 8g rollers. Both setups would offer virtually identical performance but the 8g and stiff compression spring setup would be more responsive (ie. shift smoother) because you've got two strong forces in equilibrium instead of two weak forces. This means that other forces like friction are proportionally smaller. If you have a tach on your Ruckus you'll notice that it kinda shifts in jumps....the RPMs will rise by a few hundred RPM and then it'll upshift a bit and they'll drop suddenly by a few hundred RPM. The variator doesn't shift gradually from open to closed but rather it kinda does it in bunches. With a stiffer compression spring this is improved so your RPMs don't fluctuate as much but rather they upshift more steadily.....it might only jump around by 1-2 hundred RPM instead of 3-4 hundred. This is nice but it's not a big deal. What is perhaps more important is that your variator is quite a bit more responsive when you're slowing down (ie. climbing a hill). You'll notice with the stiffer compression spring setup that your Ruckus downshifts sooner so you lose less speed up the hill while you wait for the RPMs to rise enough to get you back into the power.
The main downside to the compression spring mod (besides the hassle) is that it wears out your drivebelt a lot faster because you now have stronger forces squeezing it. With the Malossi racing compression spring I found that my stock belt was worn out in roughly 1000 miles! after that I used an aftermarket kevlar belt which lasted a lot longer. it probably lasts as long as a stock belt would in a stock ruck.
So basically, you can do just the lighter rollers and have slightly jumpy upshifting and downshifting or you can remedy that with the compression spring but it's more hassle and you need an aftermarket belt too.
The downside with just doing lighter rollers is that you
|
|
|
|
Post by seansean on Jan 30, 2009 0:28:47 GMT -5
yes? go on... jk Yeah I get that all. With the small amount of added power with my mods of PC20,Damos Exhaust,Lightened Flywhell, and CDI (just rev limit help- I know) I realize that I am at the borderline of really not getting much use out of a stiffer spring. But I intend to do the Big Bore kit with HO head soon and wanted to see how much tweaking I could do with the Contra Spring on the stock motor. Then it will still be of use to me when I have more power. I am okay with replacing my belt (Kevlar currently) every 1K miles or so in order to get some better shifting and hill climbing ability with my KN variator. Thanks for explaining it so well though. It helps to get real CLEAR responses from knowledgeable people. THANKS!
|
|
|
|
Post by Dandy Dan on Jan 30, 2009 1:20:39 GMT -5
A kevlar belt should get you quite a bit more than 1K miles, even with a racing compression spring. I got about 1K miles with the stock belt (normally I get 7-8 K on a stock belt) and I think about 5K with a kevlar belt and a racing compression spring. I think the Malossi racing compression spring with a kevlar belt and roughly 6.5g rollers is a pretty sweet setup. I really noticed awesome downshifting with this setup.....as soon as you start to slow down up a hill it reacts to bring the RPMs back up so you don't lose nearly as much speed. It stays in the powerband much better than any setup with the stock compression spring. Here is a link to the Malossi compression springs for the Ruckus: importationsthibault.com/2008/scooter08_page.php?langue=en&page=66&ac=1 |
|
|
|
Post by seansean on Jan 30, 2009 12:28:27 GMT -5
Yeah, I ordered the yellow one about two weeks ago so it should be here any day. Now I just need some warmer weather since I have no garage and the other half will kill me if I bring the Ruckus inside. Thanks for the link, I've never seen that site before.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dandy Dan on Feb 3, 2009 15:21:37 GMT -5
Not having a garage sucks....I definately feel your pain on this one because I've been working on scooters for about 5 years now without a garage. Last winter I hauled my scooter up 3 flights of stairs in my apartment building and set up a little shop in the spare bedroom. The carpet would up with quite a few stains though...
|
|
|
|
Post by Dandy Dan on Feb 3, 2009 15:22:20 GMT -5
Oh BTW, when you put the clutch together be careful to get that clip fully seated in the groove. Once I didn't get it all the way in because 20 feet down the road the clutch popped apart which made a horrible sound.
|
|
|
|
Post by seansean on Feb 4, 2009 14:26:16 GMT -5
Yep I'm about to post a how to to supplement the one IHAR put up. I am still using the stock clip until the new one comes in at the dealer later in the week. Interesting how it all works. Nothing like taking something apart and trying to put it back together for learning about how something works.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dandy Dan on Feb 16, 2009 16:27:27 GMT -5
Yeah it's a little worrisome the first time or two but after that it's all good. It's great knowing how everything works so if something does go wrong you can figure out the problem much easier.
|
|
