Lighten your stock roller-weights

[zoomerman]

I drilled a little out of 3 of my stock roller-weights (I bought three 5.5gram weights from Battlescooter so I had 3 stock ones just sitting around) then gave them to my brother to take to his engineering lab to weigh them on the gram scale. Well my drilling didn't take much off, but it was nice to see that their weights were fairly similar (important Abe says, otherwise you'll put things off balance).

Stock weights are 7.5 grams each, I drilled the weights with a 23/64 drill bit, and they weighed-in at 7.02, 7.01, and 6.98 grams. That isn't enough to make any real difference in performance, so I'd suggest a slightly bigger drill bit.

This is mainly an idea for people who really like to make their own mods, for all the rest just order your weights from the Battlescooter store. ;D

UPDATE: if you drill the stock rollerweights with a 3/8 drill bit, then they'll weigh aprox 6.55 grams each. I'm going to file them untill they're 6 grams each, then add those three to my three 5.5 gram weights.

[zoomerman]

So I added my home-made 6 gram weights to my battlestore 5.5 gram weights. The performance was bad. When I floored it at half speed I heard the rev-limiter cut in. So I assume the weights were too light and my revs were over 8000rpm. The average weight of the weights in the variator was 5.75 grams. It would still get to top speed and accelerate fine if I kept the throttle at 80%. So I figured I'd grind the spacer and the nub(nose) on the drive face a little to see if that would bring things back in order. I took very little off the spacer and nub, mainly because I was using sand paper. Installed the parts, and it was better but still hitting the rev-limiter. So, I drilled out my other 3 stock roller weights, this time I just brought them down to 6.5 grams each, which would make the average weight in the variator 6 grams. It rides well now, though I believe I still here a hint of the rev-limiter coming on when floored at half speed. Oh and my spacer and nub sanding (equal to maybe 3/4 of a millimeter) resulted in a 2km (1.2mph) gain in speed.

[Dandy Dan]

I've got 3, 5gram weights on the way in addition to the 3, 6 gram weights I already have in there. That'll mean my average weight will be 5.5grams. Which is lighter than yours which were too light. However I do have a CDI which lets me rev to 9000 so we'll see how it goes. I've already got my variator spacer shortened but i haven't installed it yet (i ordered an extra spacer from Honda (about 10$) so in case i screw things up i don't get stranded and cuz i couldn't afford the downtime as a friend did it for me when he had a chance at work).

Anyways...I am wondering...did you have to use a washer to keep the variator nut off of the threads (i don't really know what i'm talking about here cuz i haven't opened it up and looked at it yet)? if so what size did you get? my spacer is down to 35mm like yours but i haven't grinded the 'nub' yet so who knows.....

Oh one other question. Can one put three different weights of rollers in the variator. I know its important to keep things balanced and thats why when you install two different ones you always put them every second one but could you do three and then you'd have 2 of each weight so you'd put them opposite each other? It seems to me like you could. With 2 each of 5,6,7.5 i'd be averaging 6.17grams which may be about right.

I'll post my results in a few weeks once i got things sorted out. I'm not gonna start playing until my new airbox cover comes in. I scraped mine up pretty bad when i crashed er. I'm not gonna open this one up until i have time to do it right (maybe after christmas). It seems like no one has got things running any faster then stock on the top end anyways.

[Ruckass]

I'm not sure what we are talking about here. The drive pulley face had a nose on it that keeps the moveable drive face (variator) and the drive pulley face apart. So the idea is to grind the nose of the drive pulley face (spacer?)so the two plates come together closer, so the belt can ride higher. Is this correct? There is no adjustment to the drive face boss, correct? I think it would help things a lot if parts were referred to by their propper name. It would make things easier for us noobs to this scooter repair thing. I thought the spacer was the drive face boss. Coulda sucked if I ground that down.

Ruckass
p.s. is there any chance of the belt coming right up and over the drive face or variator at high speed?

[zoomerman]

Hi Ruckass, the drive face is the part with a little nub on it which contacts with the spacer, I figured aluminum would sand down faster than that thick steel spacer, so I took a little off the nub on the drive face as well as a little on the spacer (sanding is slow). The spacer is a steel pipe, and yes that's what everybody is gringing down slightly to get more top-speed (while sacrificing acceleration) but because that nub on the drive face acts like part of the spacer, I decided to sand that a little too. I got that idea from Chanito.

Hi DandyDan, I didn't use an extra washer when I installed everything, I saw no need for it yet, if I take much more off the spacer and drive face nub then I'll probably need a washer. According to my measurements my spacer is now 35.5 mm and I probably took .4 mm off the drive face nub.

regarding mixing 3 different weights in the variator, that sounds bad to me. None of the weights are exactly across from each other. I'd keep it 3 of one weight and 3 of anouther and, yes stagger them, imagine a 3 blade propeller on an airplane, each set of 3 weights should look like that propeller. see diagram... www3.telus.net/nodrog/pulley4.jpg

Keep in mind that what works or doesn't work for me, may not be the case for you. Abe suggests 6 grams average weight, with aftermarket weights, 3 of my weights have been drilled, and maybe something in the process of drilling them, alters them, who knows.

I hope I'm helping ;D ;D

[zoomerman]

Ruckass said:

Ruckass
p.s. is there any chance of the belt coming right up and over the drive face or variator at high speed?

I highly doubt it, because if you shortened your spacer that drastically, you wouldn't have the power to get up to top speed, you'd have to push your scoot to the top of a huge hill then rip down that hill, then that might be a problem. Abe suggests taking no more than 1/16 of an inch off the spacer, he doesn't talk about filing the drive face nub (nose) so if you remove some of the nub then figure that amount in your equation. (take less off the spacer)

[Dandy Dan]

zoomerman, great pics on that link. I didn't realize that the weights weren't straight across. look like i'll try 3 6gram and 3 5 but probably end up with 3 5 gram and 3 stockers for an average of 6.25 which is almost the same as mixing in the 6 grams for three different weights (6.17g)

[zoomerman]

Here's a clean and clear pic of the variator, weights and spacer. (the drive face is not shown) It's an aftermarket variator, but the stock one doesn't look much different. It's nice to familierize yourself with the parts before you open it up. With practice I've found I can open it, swap weights, and close it up in about 12-15 minutes. Great instructions on Battlescooter ;D

www3.telus.net/nodrog/R_Variatorezoomer.jpg

Chanito has some great pics of the drive face and nub (nose) filing... battlescooter.proboards27.com/index.cgi?board=stockm&action=display&thread=1099408827

by the way it seems like the scooter world invented the word "variator", spell check always grabs it.

[abe]

All this spacer talk should be in some other thread

That said, we don't shorten the drive face because it has splines and they a fragile as it is. Making them shorter isn't a real good idea.

The roller weights need to apply even pressure all the way around the pulley. To do that you need to evenly stagger the weights if you mix them. Make sense

[chanito]

I totally agree that the drive face been aluminum and splined is been taxed by grindidng it shorter BUT you can shorten the spacer as much as you can and the belt will not ride high enough becouse the limiting factor is the drive face riding against the movable face bushing, by shorten the spacer further than 1/16 you are preventing the weight from resting so when you assambly the variator the movable face is already pushing the belt outward preventing you from using the lower gear. My interest in showing this is becouse we are tighting and untighting the end of the crank everytime we take the variator apart, and that is not so good, even though the crank is steel we are streching and releasing tension on those thread. I took the variator apart so many times i do not want to do it again, so i figure by showing you what work for me i will save some people a lot of trial and error.

[zoomerman]

I have just corrected all of my posts that refer to the drive face as the driven face. If I missed any let me know, I don't want people opening up the clutch to get to the driven face.

Drive face, drives
Driven face gets driven

I was alerted to my mistake when brousing the great part pic's at :
;D www.ronayers.com/fiche/frames.cfm?catalogfile=200_0423&groupid=15420

Sorry for any confusion.

[zoomerman]

WARNING: This post is only for people who LOVE to do things themselves, the hard way.

For the people still interested in lightening their stock roller-weights...

You can make your own scale to check those weights.

Get a big knife, cardboard box, wooden spoon, 8" of thread, and a paper clip.

Stab the knife through the box with the blade facing up. The wooden spoon will balance on the knife-edge, the thread is tied to the paper clip (make the paper clip into a hook) and tie the other end of the thread to one end of the wooden spoon.

The key to this project is to find an object or objects that equal the desired weight of the roller-weights. Online I found that Canadian Pennies of different years have different weights (and they're measured in grams) a 1981 penny weighs 2.8 grams, a 1983 penny weighs 2.5 grams, a 2004 penny weighs 2.25 grams.

Cut one of those 2.5 gram pennies in half with sheet metal sheers (not a hack-saw) and add it to two of the 2.5 gram pennies, what have you got… 6.25 grams. Balance that on your scale (wrap the pennies with light tape so you can hook them on your hook) or replace the hook with a cardboard platform. Now you can lighten your weights until they match the weight of your pennies. Drill them with a 3/8” drill bit, that will make them roughly 6.55 grams each, then file the rest away with a round file.

Interesting final note: In earlier attempts I had lightened my weights too much, so I filled the inside with silicone caulking.

If anybody actually wants to do all this work, and spend all this time, and doesn’t quite understand how to make this scale, I will gladly take a picture of it and post it at their request.

This may be my craziest post ever, and it’s my 100th post. I hope to reduce my crazy posts from here on in.

In failure and success, your friend,

Zoomerman (Gord)

[chanito]

Congrats on turning a ruckster, keep writing i really enjoy your tech messages and your projects
You can buy a very cheap finger scale at the post office
that will alow you to compare weights, but are not very precise

[abe]

chanito said:

I totally agree that the drive face been aluminum and splined is been taxed by grindidng it shorter BUT you can shorten the spacer as much as you can and the belt will not ride high enough becouse the limiting factor is the drive face riding against the movable face bushing, by shorten the spacer further than 1/16 you are preventing the weight from resting so when you assambly the variator the movable face is already pushing the belt outward preventing you from using the lower gear. My interest in showing this is becouse we are tighting and untighting the end of the crank everytime we take the variator apart, and that is not so good, even though the crank is steel we are streching and releasing tension on those thread. I took the variator apart so many times i do not want to do it again, so i figure by showing you what work for me i will save some people a lot of trial and error.

I may have come across harsh, sorry buddy. It's just that I
get Emails from people who damage the splines on the plate all the time. I was just trying to keep people from getting
in trouble ;D

The only important thing is getting people to think and come
up with fun new ways to trick out the Ruckus ;D