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Post by chanito on Oct 29, 2006 22:06:12 GMT -5
 First thing first, i am not a CV carburetor expert, so this is just the way i do it after pestering some pros i know and reading most of the info on this kind of carburetors, so if you disagree please post your way to do it so we can find the easiest The thing most pro agree is that you should do the main jet first before anything else is done. The way i do it, is i do some full throttle runs with the engine cold and then with it warm so i can compare the two, as a rule of thumb if it runs way better warm than cold your jet is too small and if it runs better when cold your jet is too small. I just go full throttle and then release the throttle probably 1/8 down (do not go too far as you want the carb to stay in main jet territory) and go back again to full throttle and just try to feel the bike, remember to be patient and leave a main jet for a couple of days so you are confident on its behavior (unless is way off) Once you are happy with it then is time to move to better things, so ignore the behavior at idle or part throttle until the main jet is settle  Second step is the part throttle there is two ways to adjust it, but they do not replace the other, so a combination of both would be perfect but that requires way too much work, they are needle shimming and diaphragm spring clip and the second one is slow jet, just ride it and work the throttle at half way and accelerated steady if the bike react like is on a delay to the throttle input, you are too lean. And if it just ignore the throttle input or just feels super flat you are too rich, sadly this is one of those adjustment that are try and error so you will have to go back and forth until you are satisfy with the scooter  Again patience pays And finally the idle mixture adjustment, and on this carbs it affect the whole range so be very careful and only go 1/8 of a turn at a time because if you go too far it will be difficult to start the scooter (i find out the hard way, because i got turn happy with the screw) I made myself a tool out of a radio antenna i got from radio shack for 3 bucks, the second step is the right size and i bent a flat spot with some needle nose pliers, sadly the material is so soft the tool will turn round again after some adjustments, but i just keep flattening the spot as i am a cheap guy and do not want to spent 40+ on a tool i seldom use. Do not even think about doing this without a tach or with an engine not fully warm up, after warming the engine lower the idle to about 1700 rpms and then start turning the mixture screw 1/8 of a turn and blip the throttle stop when you reach the fastest idle, then go back 1/8 of a turn and adjust the idle speed back (the reason you go back is to avoid running rich once you correct the idle speed) in case you mess up the factory setting is 2 and 1/4 turn out after seating the needle (screwing it until it is close, do not tighten it too much as it will damage the needle and the carburetor) that means you tighten the screw and then go back out 2 and 1/4 turn. There you go "my way of adjusting the ruckus carb"
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Post by I Heard A Rukus on Oct 30, 2006 1:43:45 GMT -5
Nice work!! Along those same lines did we ever find the factory instructions on setting the idle/mix screw with an '06+? (I know the '03 manual has all kinds of crazy steps!)
KP
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Post by Blackruk on Oct 30, 2006 6:49:07 GMT -5
I trust your experience, but your directions are different from the factory manual.
Honda says to hook up a vacumm pump to the PCV (for the 'pre '06) and to go out 3/4 turn after doing the 100 rpm final drop (for all years).
Are you saying these steps are not necessary?
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Post by timberwolfmadcat on Oct 30, 2006 20:55:34 GMT -5
yes... without a tach all you do is screw everything up... it sucks take my word for it  |
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Post by chanito on Oct 30, 2006 22:21:13 GMT -5
I trust your experience, but your directions are different from the factory manual. Honda says to hook up a vacumm pump to the PCV (for the 'pre '06) and to go out 3/4 turn after doing the 100 rpm final drop (for all years). Are you saying these steps are not necessary? Yes, the silly goose who wrote the manual did not realized we were planning on switching jets and replacing the air filter housing  On a seriuos note, the manual instructions are for making sure you will not adjust the carb with a vacuum leak or stuck PAIR valve, so they tell you to plug the vacuum port (in case there is a vacuum leak, which is there is one you should fix it anyway) and you apply vacuum to the pair valve so it remains open in case of a reed valve problem, so if your scooter is running fine you can skip that  |
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Post by chanito on Dec 21, 2006 13:18:34 GMT -5
 I am working on some tunning tips with drawings and pics, so we can clarify this matter further, i had been doing some serious tear down and inspection on the carb in preparation of the wild cam, and have found some stuff that seem to contradict a lot of the knowledge we have on this particular carb, but anyway this will only apply to this specific carburetor as i have no idea how some other scooter carb works 
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Post by Dandy Dan on Dec 22, 2006 14:33:50 GMT -5
That'll be great...I'm looking forward to it Chanito!
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Post by timberwolfmadcat on Dec 23, 2006 12:04:11 GMT -5
stock setting is 2 1/4, i seemed to calculate 2 1/2 turns.... i should go double check that
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Post by chanito on Dec 24, 2006 12:05:26 GMT -5
stock setting is 2 1/4, i seemed to calculate 2 1/2 turns.... i should go double check that  In mine it was 2 and 1/4, regarless, it has some leeway just do not start turning it like a corkscreww because it will make starting a warm engine almost imposible |
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Post by chanito on Dec 28, 2006 20:33:56 GMT -5
I really need to sit down and go over this carburetor here, but it will be long, i will start with some boring stuff so it will be out of the way. your slow jet feeds the idle mixture screw and the transition ports, this ports are small holes before and after the butterfly, so they will discharge gas as you open the throttle, however due to the size, most of the fuel discharge is done by the idle mixture port, this is important because adjusting the idle mixture will cure a lot of problems now blamed on the slow jet, one of the most common is the stumble at take off when switching intakes, usually 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn is all it takes to have that fix Before due to the prohibitive cost of the tool, adjusting the mixture was hard, now with a cheap tool alternative not adjusting it is a crime. This is my opinion, so if you disagree, i respect your opinion, but my experience backs mine. Reading spark plugs, is not easy, they can give you a lot of information, but it requires a lighted magnifying glass to really read one properly, and usually you need to start with new ones every time (it can get really expensive) using the method of checking the porcelain color is not good enough to adjust the mixture, it will just tell you "you are way off" but it will not narrow it enough to do a final determination (i remember a while back, someone posted a picture of a used spark plug on TR and ask for opinions on it, so i posted mine, and someone posted right after me that is was perfect, no explanation given, so i figure this "expert" was just using a broad view to judge the spark, "it is tan then is perfect") DO NOT DO IT, just check the spark if you suspect your engine is way rich or way lean, and used a watch or a timed run to get to the ideal jetting. Maybe later if there is interest i will post a how-to on reading a working spark plug (forget those posters the spark plugs companies post, they are of extreme cases, you are not likely to find, unless you are a mechanic and fix engines for a living ) Also a lot of people are under the impression that the needle moves out of the way totally at wide open throttle, it does not, doing it will mean a poor choice of needles, you need the needle to stay on the carb, so when you close the throttle the needle does not go out of place and get stuck out of the hole preventing the slide from sliding down the taper and size of the tip is what determine the efficiency of the needle. How the carb works at part throttle is the work of the spring and the hole at the bottom of the slider, hope this clarify some of the mysteries of the carb
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Post by chanito on Jan 12, 2007 20:19:50 GMT -5
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Post by Dandy Dan on Jan 13, 2007 22:07:40 GMT -5
How much are vacuum gauges and will this technique work on an 2006 or newer Ruckus with the different Pair/PCV system?
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Post by chanito on Jan 17, 2007 21:02:22 GMT -5
Sadly 06 and later do not have a vacuum port for the pair valve, so this vacuum reading method will not work, a cheap vacuum gauge can be bought at Sears for about 10 bucks and cheaper at an autoparts. The highest idle speed even though is not as easy it can be done. There is a couple of mods that can increase the flow of the carburetor, but one involves taking the throttle blade and using a small file knife edge the throttle blade also use this opportunity to file the screws about 1mm shorter so when you install it back is flush with the throttle blade shaft. another fun fact is that somehow the carb flows better when the throttle is a bit past center Also when you install back the throttle blade screws a drop of loctite helps preventing the screws from coming loose |
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Post by Dandy Dan on Jan 18, 2007 9:16:17 GMT -5
Thanks Chanito....I don't see myself knife edging the butterfly anytime soon but it's good to know. I will hopefully dial in the slow jet once I pull the Ruckus out in March.
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Post by chanito on Feb 5, 2007 17:11:52 GMT -5
I need to continue with this thread, the carb flow is pretty good, but knife edgind the throttle blade does increase the flow, also i discovered that modifying the exhaust will make the carb more sensitive and it will actually run rich at part throttle, that is why i think adjusting the mixture is way better than start playing with the slow jet, i cutted 3 coil of the spring and i went too far, i think that one coil off or one and a half is as much as we should cut from the coil, also enlarging the smal hole in the diaphragm make the behaivor of the carburator way too umpredictable, i will see about getting a new and try again without messing with it
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Post by Dandy Dan on Feb 6, 2007 9:10:04 GMT -5
Cutting the coil is a tough mod because it's pretty crude and hard to tell exactly what difference it's going to make. I always feel like I'm just taking shots in the dark when I cut it. Adjusting the idle mixture does seem like a good first step in rejetting but I'm still a little fuzzy on how to do it (just set it so the idle revs as high as possible and then turn down the idle?) and I haven't received my idle mix socket yet I guess I haven't paid for it yet either...if you let me know about the total for that plus the engine + shipping then I'll get you that $$$. |
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Post by chanito on Feb 6, 2007 19:20:11 GMT -5
I will mail you the engine and the tool tomorrow, and i will let you know the total, the tool will go in an envelope air mail and the engine by ground. Cutting the coil is a good idea, as it is what regulates the speed of the raise of the piston, also this spring keeps the piston in a mid opening position at part throttle, the problem is i really need an oxigen sensor to know if it is too high or too low, so i can cut it more in case is lean, or get a new one in case is rich, so yes being able to get the lenght right is important, also the hole on the diaphragm is also important as it is what give you the fuel pump effect when you accel the scooter, also this hole is what give you a smooth deccel at throttle release. The good news is that this info will be good for everyone, so if someone invest on an 0xigen sensor on the stock muffler the info will benefit everyone with a stock muffler, and will be very close to everyone else, so if we discover that "X" cut coil and a specific size hole are the best for the stock muffler but a different intake, it will work for everybody, the main individual change is still the idle mixture. So as soon as i sell my last big bore i will get one of those fuel mixture gauges and do some serious research
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Post by Dandy Dan on Feb 7, 2007 9:08:33 GMT -5
You can just toss the tool in with the engine if it's not too late...I'm not in a big hurry to get it because my Ruckus is in pieces anyways.
When you say 'as soon as I sell me last big bore' does that mean you've only got one left? Or just that if you do eventually sell them all then....
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Post by Blackruk on Feb 7, 2007 9:37:21 GMT -5
I think its more of a tease to encourage people to buy the remaining big bores. He said has six left. I believe I bought the last one he sold.
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Post by timberwolfmadcat on Feb 7, 2007 15:48:11 GMT -5
I think its more of a tease to encourage people to buy the remaining big bores. He said has six left. I believe I bought the last one he sold. believe it or not come spring mine will be done and then the people in calgary will see my mad fast ride and buy the big bore kits ;D |
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