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Post by jocrew on Aug 31, 2005 2:41:50 GMT -5
hey i bought my ruckus about 2 weeks ago and i need more speed out of it so that i could go on the freeway... ive decided to change the engine to a 100cc... but i really dont know anything about the whole engine thing... will a engine swap be possible? how much will the engine cost? where can i get it installed? where can i get the engine?
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Post by jrcanoe on Aug 31, 2005 9:09:13 GMT -5
It's a whole lot more involved than just swaping the engine. There is alot of rewireing. You need much better brakes and supension ect...
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Post by Dandy Dan on Aug 31, 2005 10:20:43 GMT -5
A lot of japanese riders have swaped out there engines. You can see some vids at tokyo-parts.co.jp if you click on pics and then on the video links at the bottom of the page. If you swap the engine you basically need to swap everything inc. all wiring, fuel pump, transmission, rear wheel etc. The Ruckus has a quite unique engine and it isn't compatable with much. I know Abe, owner of the Battlescooter store, used to have a CH 150cc engine in there and he could go 55+mph but it kinda looked like a bit of a frankenstein. The engines the Japs are using look much nicer. I could be way off but the company that makes them MIGHT be Minerelli. That name just sounds familar.
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Post by Robo-Mod on Aug 31, 2005 16:07:18 GMT -5
Minarelli makes motors for a good percentage of the scooter. The guys on the tokyo parts are in the G Zoomer crew and they are installing 2 stroke, 100cc motor s from the yamaha grand axis, which is not in america. I have been looking at donor scooters for awhile. The whole swap will need an intial investment of at least $2000. It yer tricky it could be done for less, but I am looking for a current motor with aftermarket support in america. Hint: look for a model with a single shock.
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Post by jocrew on Aug 31, 2005 23:36:56 GMT -5
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Post by jocrew on Aug 31, 2005 23:42:25 GMT -5
if the whole engine swapping thing is over 2000$ i think i will juss get another bike for 2000$ that is 100cc... wut bike do u think i should get??(i dont want any scooter i usually didnt like scooters but the ruckus is an exception)
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hadoq
Ruckster
Posts: 161
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Post by hadoq on Sept 1, 2005 5:06:00 GMT -5
euh... 2k for an engine swap seems to be abit exagerated, depending on your knowledge in mechanics, it can be done for less of that.
gonna try and imagine hoy much the parts cost for a topm high end racing, big bored 70cc and all you need to make it run FAST.
minarelli engine, let's say zooma/BW engine -> get a used zooma, maybe 500 bucks. way less if you can find the lower engine only, maybe 200 bucks. -> decent 70cc big bore kit -> 250 bucks -> polini carb kit (21 carb and all you need to go with) -> 150 bucks -> decent cdi from 150-300 bucks depending on what you want. -> high end variator 100 90 bucks -> exhaust 100-300 bucks depending on what you want.
but that isn't a simple engine swap, that is to get 17/20 horsepower out of a minarelli engine.
so I end up, for the best you can get out of a minarelli engine, with 1600 bucks cost, maybe throw in a couple of bucks for tuning and all, figure out how to mount it yourself, and you end up with a 20 horsepower ruckus.
if you only need 10 horsepower cut the price in half
get a minarelli, start with a cool, but not high end mods smooth 10 hp, and it'll cost you about 800/900 bucks in parts, and 2 stroke engines aren't really hard to mount / tune.
and I can maybe see if I can hook up with parts for nice prices from the shop I work in.
so you end up with approx 1300 bucks including the original engine purchase, big bore kit and all that comes around.
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Post by Robo-Mod on Sept 1, 2005 11:41:16 GMT -5
Yeah, your getting close to $2000. But I would like to start with a decent scooter. Don't forget the paint, fabbing the motor mounts, and the wiring issue. Too bad zumas are not always that cheap, and I would prefer to have the newer model with the horizontal transmission. And since I am looking at a newer 4-stroke, it won't be as cheap, and I was planning on selling the body parts and stuff on ebay.
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hadoq
Ruckster
Posts: 161
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Post by hadoq on Sept 1, 2005 14:07:22 GMT -5
well yea, that said if you put 1500 bucks for engine swap, you'll end up with a ruckus that can reach 100km/h (approx 65mph)
spend 900/1000 bucks for an easy 80km/h (50+mph)
that including engine purchase, I don't think it's so expensive, now that hard part would be to fit the engine into the ruckus.
of course if you can find a zooma's engine for a decent price, here in france you can get a whole zooma/BW for about 300/400 bucks, maybe 150/200 maxi for the lower engine only, maybe less.
if we can work out a way to do it, I could see if I can get some here and ship em to the USA.
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Post by chanito on Sept 1, 2005 20:48:51 GMT -5
This is just "my" opinion, the 4 cycle engine in the ruckus can be easily mod to get a dependable 45-50 mph, which is a safe speed, any higher and the ruckus becomes a risky ride and will need the expensive suspension mod to be trustworthy. The 2 cycle is only an option if you like to take your engine apart regularly, in my modest experience, mod any two cycle engine and its longevity goes downhill, and the performance takes a nose dive after some hundred miles, which at least in my case is about twice a year, so the only option to me is to mod the stock engine. The HO cam is not that expensive, i wish Abe can make some templates to port the engine with, installing a high flow intake and a nice exhaust and you are at least in very friendly terms with the 45 mph, you are talking about 500 bucks (the muffler being the most expensive item) if we ever get around to do the stroking and boring we should be very comfortable in the low 50 mph range with a 65 cc engine, something to look forward to
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Post by Dandy Dan on Sept 1, 2005 21:07:50 GMT -5
I'm all for modifying the stocker too. 50mph is achieveable and 45mph can be the regular crusing speed with all the current available mods. I think we should all push for the bored out ruckus (65cc) and perhaps stroked too (maybe another 10cc). A 75cc ruckus with the H.O. cam and all the other mods would cruise over 50mph all day.
I perfer to mod the stock engine for a couple reasons including: - clean looks, it's hard not to make a frankenscoot (see Abe's Ruckus with the 150cc engine) - reliability - simplicity, no bracket fabrication, replacing rims, drive units etc, wiring.... - legality, if a suspicious cop pulls you over the stock engine looks much more legit. technically you are supposed to tell your insurance company if you make any perf. enhancements - sophitication, our stock engine is such a cool, high tech motor that runs awesome, super clean etc and to give up a wonderful, liquid cooled 4-stroke for a noisy, unreliable, high maintenance, fuel sucking (relatively) 2-stroke doesn't appeal to me. Everyone email abe at general@battlescooter.com and beg him for the big bore piston. As soon as the 06's are announced (next week?) he may continue work on it. Ideally he'd design it for the 4-valve head so we could do a head swap at the same time for better breathing which would really be helpful with the bigger displacement.
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hadoq
Ruckster
Posts: 161
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Post by hadoq on Sept 2, 2005 10:47:45 GMT -5
ok I checked today about avalaibility on minarelli lower engines (we call that carter if that helps)
so the base without cylinder or whatever else.
the price for a used one should be around 200-300 bucks without shipping, now we should be able to figure out a way to ship em overseas if someone's interrested in getting one.
so basically as it is now, I can get all the parts needed to build a full minarelli engine
from stock like a stock zooma, to high end racing parts.
from a used (I need to check, I can maybe even get new minarelli lower engine) minarelli with brand new racing parts or stock parts.
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Post by Robo-Mod on Sept 2, 2005 14:17:47 GMT -5
Abe is surprised that more people are not getting in the motor swap thing. His elite 150 motor was not the best choice, it has two shocks, I think thats why he went back to the stock motor. The Kiri Racing G Zoomer crew, with grand axis 100cc's, get that long low look, and they freakin book. Personally I was looking at the new vespa motor, and being that they have a steel unibody, selling it on Ebay should'nt be a problem. Their bodywork is hard to repair. The 4-valve, 150cc motor puts out 15hp stock. Also, I think a polished billet motor mount on the painted ala chopper style would look nice. I'd like some aluminum wheels to, abe sells the blanks, and I could get the cnc program done in an afternoon for some custom rims. I've alredy done a motorcycle wheel project. I do like the stock motor, but I don't know, we'll see what happens. There are some "parts" in the works. shhh.
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hadoq
Ruckster
Posts: 161
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Post by hadoq on Sept 2, 2005 17:35:58 GMT -5
guys check that out www.monkeyshop.de/tuning.htmlthey sell full engines for honda bikes, I asked em by email if they think those engines could be mounted in a zoomer/ruckus.
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Post by chanito on Sept 2, 2005 20:23:58 GMT -5
I still rather stroke and bore our motors than swap, but hey that is just me
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Post by Dandy Dan on Sept 2, 2005 23:48:58 GMT -5
A nearby cycle shop has a crashed Vino a couple months ago for about 500$ cdn. Only the front was damaged and it came with an aftermarket pipe. That would have been a nice pickup. I should check and see if they still got it although I don't really wanna jump into a huge project like that right now. I can't lie and say the Minerelli engines don't appeal to me. I would be peeing my pants with glee if I had 20hp. However I think the stock motor does have the potential to take me as fast as I want to go. I recorded an 8.8sec 0-30mph time today which is the fastest yet. I've really got it dialed in lately. If I can get the engine bored out and stroked I think we could see top speeds in the mid 50's and 0-30mph times around 7 sec if you did all the other mods too ie. CDI, exhaust, carb, 4-valve head, high flow intake, gearing etc. It wouldn't be a highway predatory like you might be with 20hp but I would likely be enough to be the first car off the line at most stoplights.
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kzuckus
Junior Ruckster
"Look, Sir, Droids."
Posts: 83
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Post by kzuckus on Sept 3, 2005 10:05:12 GMT -5
I agree with Chanito, I'd rather keep my stock engine and go from there. I'm at 41-42 with just the spacer/pulley shave, now we wait for Abe to get us bored and stroked....
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Post by chanito on Sept 3, 2005 17:35:36 GMT -5
We need to start doing some research into fabricating some pistons and a stroker crank, a 65cc kit seems reasonable and it should get us into the low 50's
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hadoq
Ruckster
Posts: 161
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Post by hadoq on Sept 5, 2005 18:22:04 GMT -5
well, the worst issue (IMO) of an engine swap, would be the sound...
you guys seem to know alot more about engines and stuff than me, I'd rather read you more often.
anyway you seem to have very good ideas.
but of you ever need something for a minarelli engine, lemme know ^^
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Post by chanito on Sept 5, 2005 20:44:10 GMT -5
I haven't built a 2 stroke engine in years, i use to built them for race go-karts and they were very temperamental, and require constant adjustment to compensate for temp and humidity conditions, a 4 cycle go-kart engine was a lot more friendly but i quit when they started running alcohol on them, i also used to built engines for professional drag racing, but the tech is totally useless for street engines, so more than likely you know more than me
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