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Post by Dandy Dan on Jun 28, 2006 12:35:26 GMT -5
I've been doing some research into aftermarket parts from the Honda Dio and seeing how they will work on the Ruckus. I've been talking to Steve from VTCycles.com and he provided me with a lot of good information. Here's what I've learned: - There are 2 types of Dio's which are the Japanese produced ones and the ones made in Taiwan. The Taiwan ones use a bigger axle (12mm vs. 10mm) than the Ruckus and the Japanese Dio. There are a ton of cheap Taiwan parts available though compared to the Japanese ones which are more expensive. - ScootRSport.com sells mostly the Taiwan stuff which is why some people are having trouble with the axle. The solution is to make a sleeve that fits in the fork legs to reduce the size. - All of these scoots use 27mm stanchions as does the Elite 50 supposedly so that's not a problem. - The fork legs are spaced further apart on the Ruckus so you need a special spacer kit available from Battlescooter - Most Dio parts are Disc specific so unless you buy drum specific fork legs you'll need to go all out and buy new rims and a front disc brake too. - The Dio rims are 2.15" wide although you can find some aftermarket ones that are 2.5" wide. The Ruckus uses 3" wide ones which suit our fat tires much better. Not a huge deal but it's something to consider. - Most (all?) of the ScootRSport forks are a bit taller than our stock forks. - No one that I know of has installed the ScootRSport (Taiwan version?) front rim with it's presumably bigger axle hole. To do this you'd probably need the right axle (which may be hard to get since our forks are spaced further apart so the Taiwan Dio axle may be to short) and you'd need to Taiwan fork legs or you'd have to drill out the Japanese ones. - So basically you need to be concerned about: fork height, rim width, fork leg spacing, axle size, disc or drum brakes and drum brake tabs. Now regarding where we can get this Dio stuff...you can get the official Honda Japan Dio stuff from Battlescooter. Unfortunately this is the most expensive stuff and the full conversion is $1400 which is pricey but it's a complete conversion kit so you're not left hanging. You can also get the Taiwan stuff from ScootRSport.com and you can get the fork legs in a drum brake version which is a nice option but you'll still need to grind the tab narrower because it's too fat..not a huge deal...and you might need to use an axle spacer. The best forks from ScootRSport are the FRC ones and all ScootRSport forks come in gold, blue and silver. FRC, Posh, Prodigy and BMF (Blue Moon Factory) all make aftermarket fork legs. I'm not sure which ones are Taiwan compatable and which are Japanese though but I believe BMF is Japanese. I believe some of the FRC, Posh and Prodigy ones that you get from ScootRSport are slightly taller than the stock forks. Doctavious has a set which look nice. My favourite fork legs are these ones by BMF. They are inverted and lowered (40mm of travel) and look amazing. I'm hoping to get a set of these:   Also, JiangWayne.com/Scooter sells a Dio rear rim which appears to be OEM Honda Japan. I contacted him to see if he can get more stuff. The Dio rims are normally disc in the front and drum in the rear so the front rim looks better in my opinion. Here's a picture of a Ruckus (Arunto) with the full Dio conversion including the lowered (but not inverted) BMF forks. totalruckus.com/phpBB2/garage.php?mode=view_gallery_item&type=garage_gallery&image_id=641So basically, if you want to just swap your fork legs you'll need to find a set that are drum brake compatable (or buy a bracket to use drum brakes with disc legs. I know someone who sells them but they're $75) and then all you need to worry about is the width of the drum brake tab, the axle size and the fork height. If you want to convert all out you'll need disc specific fork legs and rims and then you just need to worry about your axle size, getting the spacer kit from Battlescooter, fork height, rim width, and finding a disc brake. |
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Post by Dandy Dan on Jul 10, 2006 9:05:02 GMT -5
I don't know what's wrong with everyone because I posted gold in the above post and 43 people read it and no one commented. Oh well, maybe it's just because I was so thorough.
Anyways, I'll continue to bring you guys the cutting edge info:
JiangWayne.com/Scooter is about to start offering full Dio conversion kits for the Ruckus. They'll include the OEM Honda Japan rims, fork legs and disc brake but I'm not sure if they come with the little stuff (ie. spacers) like the Battlescooter kit does. However, the big news about the JiangWayne kit is that it's only $999 Cdn or $849 US! That's a considerable amount cheaper and since I'm hopefully getting my fork legs from elsewhere I should be able to get the rest of the kit for around $700-800 Cdn which is awesome. I emailed JiangWayne back and asked him about a partial kit and about whether it includes the spacers.
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Post by ZOOMER46 on Jul 11, 2006 16:58:41 GMT -5
great thread!
and yes you are thorough,but no -one is complaining!
how you manage to get hold of all this info i'll never know !
the dio forks are a great idea as the standard ones don't really have much travel,
and great work in finding a big saving with the kit,
the b.s kit is super smart but most owners will not quite have that much to spend,
now ,is there anyone else that does aftermarket 10'' wheels?
they all seem to be 12'',and only look good on extended wbase bikes.
i like the charm of the chunky 10's,and the better ride they give,
also for example
if we used two left dio forks (that have the discs caliper mounting bracket)
and mounted twin discs,we would need an aftermarket wheel right?
to mount the extra disc to the wheel,chanito gave some ideas with the go-carting parts,
but i am convinced that there must be another way.?
i've not seen a twin disc zoomer in jap even,so it would be cool for this site to try and
pioneer a way.
and if you fit the taller dio forks what length of rear shock owuld be needed to level the bike?
also when doing a disc brake conv,the lever attachment on the right will be redundent,what do people normally do with it ?surely cant be removed as a who;e unit as it has the kill switch(on yours at least) and the start button?
and i noticed that the speedo cable has switched to the other side,are there provisions in the conv kits to keep the speedo at the front wheel?
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Post by Dandy Dan on Jul 12, 2006 8:49:56 GMT -5
now ,is there anyone else that does aftermarket 10'' wheels? they all seem to be 12'',and only look good on extended wbase bikes. i like the charm of the chunky 10's,and the better ride they give, To my knowlege, the only 12" rims available are the ones from Battlescooter. The rest of the aftermarket rims I've seen are 10". The Honda Dio uses smaller rubber than us so they can't fit 12" rims which is why most of the aftermarket rims are 10" (most of our aftermarket parts are from the Dio). I have no idea where that guy in the above picture got his rims but those are 10" rims. In addition to the Dio 10" rims you can see more rims at ScootRSport.com and he can get quite a few more than are shown there but I think those rims are for the Taiwan Dio so you might need to get the Taiwan axle too and the right fork legs. I think there are quite a few 10" rim options available in Japan but we don't have a way to get them. if we used two left dio forks (that have the discs caliper mounting bracket) and mounted twin discs,we would need an aftermarket wheel right? to mount the extra disc to the wheel,chanito gave some ideas with the go-carting parts, but i am convinced that there must be another way.? i've not seen a twin disc zoomer in jap even,so it would be cool for this site to try and pioneer a way. Personally, I'd be thrilled with just one disc brake but I agree that two would be really cool. Using 2 left fork legs probably would work to mount to calipers but you'd probably need to order 2 sets of fork legs because I doubt they come individually. Mounting the rotor on the right side of the rim still seems like a serious challenge though. I imagine it could be done but not easily. Maybe you could tap a few holes in to the rims and make some spacers and then mount the rotor? and if you fit the taller dio forks what length of rear shock owuld be needed to level the bike? Probably a 285mm shock would make it level again. The fork legs aren't that much taller (20mm?) and I've heard when you sit on the bike most of this sags anyways. I don't mind the amount of travel our stock forks have it's just that it's way too soft and not progressive enough. If the travel got stiffer through it's stroke then we wouldn't be bottoming out nearly as often. I've actually heard those lowered 40mm BMF forks feel quite good because they are a lot stiffer. also when doing a disc brake conv,the lever attachment on the right will be redundent,what do people normally do with it ?surely cant be removed as a who;e unit as it has the kill switch(on yours at least) and the start button? I've already switched my brake cables so the right handle controls the rear and the left lever does the front. This makes it easier to do burnouts and it makes it the same as my mtn bike which is helpful. You can switch the cables in 15min and then you could just replace the left side controls which don't have the start and kill switches. You're brake light might not come on though if you just pulled the front brake. i noticed that the speedo cable has switched to the other side,are there provisions in the conv kits to keep the speedo at the front wheel? The aftermarket rims have speedo gears that should let you hook up your speedo like normal. If the speedo is hooked up on the right side it's probably because it was interfering with the disc brake so you might need to think about this if you were gonna try a dual disc setup. |
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Post by Kami no Chiizu on Jul 12, 2006 13:51:08 GMT -5
I've already switched my brake cables so the right handle controls the rear and the left lever does the front. This makes it easier to do burnouts and it makes it the same as my mtn bike which is helpful. You can switch the cables in 15min and then you could just replace the left side controls which don't have the start and kill switches. You're brake light might not come on though if you just pulled the front brake. When I rode my bicycle for like the first time in quite a few months, I had a panic attack trying to stop 'cause I couldn't remember which brake was which on it as opposed to Ryoko... |
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Post by ZOOMER46 on Jul 13, 2006 17:43:32 GMT -5
kami, did you twist the right side grip onyer bicycle too!!vroom vroom...
am only really intrested in 10'' wheels really,to keep the same look,but ideally the steel polished wheels would be best to adapt i am guessing?
shame to think that you can only buy dio fork sets and not split them,
maybe only from the dealers then.
maybe to get e new speedo signal , a electronic sender and probe may do the job.
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Post by Dandy Dan on Jul 14, 2006 9:49:59 GMT -5
Most of the aftermarket rims come with a speedo hookup that should work so you shouldn't need to go with a electronic system.
I imagine you could get 2 left hand fork legs from the Japanese Honda dealers but we really need a Japanese contact for that. A couple Japs have wandered by this board over the years...the next one that does we need to grab and explain to him that he can make good $$$ sell us OEM Honda Japan parts.
Zoomer, have you checked out the rims on ScootRSport.com? They have 3 different styles shown and they are all 10". Also, they can get a huge range of rims but it would be hard to get pics of them I imagine.
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Post by Kami no Chiizu on Jul 16, 2006 19:07:12 GMT -5
kami, did you twist the right side grip onyer bicycle too!!vroom vroom... I tried that, but didn't get very far. I took Tomos for a ride a few months back... she still won't start, but I could at least pedal her around... that's really weird, pedal power, but the brakes are backwards, blew my mind. |
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bango707
Junior Ruckster
Southern Cali Ruk Rider!
Posts: 66
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Post by bango707 on Aug 1, 2006 10:41:47 GMT -5
How many people have modified their stock forks? I went back and found aweshuks thread about installing some new springs but I don't know if the PDF is still available. I would like to try something like that before I shell out a grand on the dio. If anyonw knows exactly what he did or has any other ideas about making the stock forks better please share the info!
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Post by Dandy Dan on Aug 1, 2006 11:37:55 GMT -5
The stock forks suck partly because they don't have any damping...they're essentially just springs but the main reason they suck is because the bottom outs are so harsh. There is a bullet shaped piece of rubber in one fork leg that is supposed to cushion the bottom out but that rubber is too hard and the wack you hear when you bottom out your fork legs is it hitting the rubber. Awkshucks mod attempts to deal with the problem by replacing the rubber stopper with springs. It's a great idea in theory but my personal experience is that the springs he's suggesting are still too hard and so you wack those and it feels like you bottomed out but there is still another 10mm of travel. It doesn't really get rid of the wack and it happens sooner because the springs are taller so personally I don't find it a big improvement.
If you can find some softer springs that fit well that would work good or you could buy a set of fork legs from ScootRSport.com. They are similar to the ones battlescooter supplies in the kit except they are much cheaper (and lower quality but still way ahead of stock) and they come in drum brake version so they're essentially a bolt on solution except you may need to file the drum brake tab a bit thinner and you might need to shim the axle hole but that's minor.
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bango707
Junior Ruckster
Southern Cali Ruk Rider!
Posts: 66
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Post by bango707 on Aug 1, 2006 12:47:44 GMT -5
On a scale of 1-10, 10 being most difficult, what do you think installing the scootrsport forks would rank? My ruck is my main transportation so being without it for more than a day would be a pain in the arse!
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bango707
Junior Ruckster
Southern Cali Ruk Rider!
Posts: 66
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Post by bango707 on Aug 1, 2006 12:49:18 GMT -5
by the way do you know what arunto has going on under his seat? Looks pretty gnarly!
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Post by Dandy Dan on Aug 1, 2006 13:02:39 GMT -5
On a scale of 1-10, 10 being most difficult, what do you think installing the scootrsport forks would rank? My ruck is my main transportation so being without it for more than a day would be a pain in the arse! I'd say maybe a 5. Here's what you'd have to do: Step 1 - Remove front wheel -> Unbolt the axle and slide out. Total time = 1 minute. Step 2 - Remove fork legs -> Unbolt two bolts at the top of each fork leg. Total time = 3-5 minutes Step 3 - Install new fork legs into crown -> Reinstall the 2 bolts holding each fork leg on at the top. Total Time -> 3-5 minutes Now if the forks were perfectly compable you'd just spend another minute bolting the front axle bolt back in but some or all of the ScootRSport rims were designed for the Taiwan Honda Dio which uses a 10mm axle unlike the Japanese Dio and Ruckus which use an 8mm axle. This means the holes in the fork legs will likely be a little too big. You'll need to wrap something around the ends of the axle to fatten it a little. I forget what people have been using (thin pieces of tin?) but you could probably get away with almost anything from tin foil to JB Weld. JB Weld (basically an epoxy glue) would work pretty snazzy if you just filled the hole in the fork leg with it and let that dry and then re-drilled an 8mm hole. I've done something similar before and it works great. Anyways, you'd need something to shim the axle somehow and this shouldn't take too long as long as you plan ahead for it. If you want to take the simple way out, simply wrapping the ends in tin foil a few times may do the trick. I'd guess this will take 5 min - A couple hours if you wait for the JB weld to dry. Once you got that problem taken care of you'll need to deal with the drum brake tab issue. The drum brake tab on the inside of the left fork leg is a bit too wide to fit into the slot on our drum brakes so you need to file it thinner. I think it's 12mm wide and we need it 8mm wide so what people have been doing is filing 2mm off of each side so it's still centered. If you have a good file this should only be a 15 minute job I'd imagine but I'm not sure how hard the metal is. You could also probably use a small grinder, a dremel or hacksaw even. I'd guess this will take you 5 min - 30 min. Once you got those 2 issues dealt with it's clear sailling and you just need to bolt that front wheel back on (2min). The total job takes about 15min + whatever time you spend fixing the 2 issues which will probably take from 10min to a couple hours. As long as you plan ahead you should have no problem doing this mod on a saturday afternoon. You could file down the drum brake tab ahead of time and even use JB Weld or whatever to fix the axle size problem a couple days before so when you actually go to do the install your down time should be less than 1/2 hr. |
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Post by Dandy Dan on Aug 1, 2006 13:07:19 GMT -5
by the way do you know what arunto has going on under his seat? Looks pretty gnarly! Are just talking about the metal racing pan from Battlescooter or the fancy underseat bags he has? |
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bango707
Junior Ruckster
Southern Cali Ruk Rider!
Posts: 66
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Post by bango707 on Aug 1, 2006 14:08:15 GMT -5
On totalruckus there wa a guy who fabricated a piece to use in addition with the scootrsport forks. what was that piece all about and would it help me? do you know if he still sells them? Also do you know when Jiangwayne is going to offer the dio kit? I may end up waiting for that instead? Sorry for asking 20 questions!
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Post by Dandy Dan on Aug 1, 2006 14:23:49 GMT -5
When you buy fork legs they'll either have a tab for drum brakes or a mount on the side so you can mount a disc caliper. What that fabricated part bolts to fork legs that are made for a disc caliper and it is basically a bolt on drum brake tab. It allows you to use your disc specific fork legs with drum brakes. You could buy the disc brake version of the fork legs from ScootRSport and then buy that adapter and that would work perfectly (and allow you to convert to a disc brake later) but the bracket is kinda expensive ($75) and you could accomplish the same thing by buying the drum brake version of the fork legs and filing the tab thinner. That bracket was made by 'Ace_Fallen' I believe and to my knowledge he's still making them but I don't know anyone who's bought one recently.
The JiangWayne Dio kit is going to be about $900 and he might even have that ready to go now because he's slow to update his website so you could give him a call. He should have it up in a couple months. The JiangWayne uses Taiwan Dio parts instead of Japanese Dio parts so the quality is a bit lower and it uses the larger 10mm axle (which isn't a problem because everything is 10mm). The rims in the kit look nice but the fork legs and disc brake look mediocre.
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