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Post by Dandy Dan on Jun 19, 2006 9:06:43 GMT -5
My paypal payment was just sent so hopefully I can get the ball rolling up here in Canada soon. Assuming Chanito mails it out soon I should have it by the July 1st weekend. I'm working out of town during the week so it'll take me a few weeks to get it in there but hopefully I can tear my engine down and take it into the shop that weekend and then put things back together the following weekend. Hopefully by the weekend of the 15th I can have it roughly tuned and start sharing my performance #'s. My Ruckus is running amazing right now so the bar is set high.
I've got a Veypor VR2 as well so collectively we should be able to get a lot of install and performance info. Actually disassembling your engine is surprisingly easy if you have a service manual and a torque wrench. I've never done anything like it before until I replaced the crankshaft on my old ruckus this winter...it took me 2 days working at a slow but steady pace but nothing about it was hard...just stay organized and work in a clean area and there's no worries.
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Post by chanito on Jun 20, 2006 18:53:49 GMT -5
:)My motor is getting bore and i should get it back by friday, so hopefully i will install the piston on the weekend and be able to report next week ;D ;D
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Post by Kami no Chiizu on Jun 20, 2006 19:00:08 GMT -5
Awesome.
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Post by ZOOMER46 on Jun 21, 2006 18:54:40 GMT -5
count me in for a 4 valve piston,
maybe we should think bout a forged crank
after wot happened to dans '03.?
a piston and sleeve kit would be great,its easy power
and torque which is needed.is there a bike tuner
out there that is willing to fit bigger valves as well as
porting the head?
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Post by chanito on Jun 21, 2006 21:54:06 GMT -5
 I do not have a 4valve piston, and fitting a sleeve in the ruckus engine would be extremely expensive, so i know i will not look into it, but i would love to do a 4 valve big bore piston, our valves and i have said this a lot of times, are big and at least in the two valve head are of the high flow thin head design, what is limiting the flow potential of this head is the narrow high velocity long intake runner, getting more flow will require some serious surgery on the head, there is some places where you can optimize the stock head, like grinding away the vacuum nipple from the pair system, cleaning the runners, specially the exhaust port, and cleaning the intake manifold (the part between the carb and the head), installing bigger valves will kill our mid and low range and do very little for the top end, so in my opinion is a waste of time and money
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Post by Dandy Dan on Jun 22, 2006 8:23:56 GMT -5
count me in for a 4 valve piston, That's good to know so if enough interest arises then a run can be make someday. Hopefully these can be made someday but Chanito's gonna need to sell his 2 valve run first and there needs to be lots of interest from europe. If Japan goes to 4V for 07 then there might be a bigger market and quicker results maybe we should think bout a forged crank after wot happened to dans '03.? An aftermarket crank with a longer stroke would be sweet because I'd be a bolt in mod that could add up to 5cc probably. The main problem with the stock crank is just that the bearings suck and go over time. If it was forged it wouldn't matter if the bearings were the same. a piston and sleeve kit would be great,its easy power and torque which is needed. I think you are referring to the kits which are available for a lot of scooters which come with a bigger piston and a whole new cyclinder/sleeve. On a lot of scooters the cylinder just bolts on so you can just unbolt it and bolt on a huge one. Unfortunately our cylinder is not removable so all we can do is bore it out larger. The sleeve walls stock are 2.5mm thick and the supporting aluminum is 5mm thick. These pistons bore that out to a 1mm thick sleeve with 5mm of support still. It's possible to bore it out further and put a new sleeve in but like Chanito said that's super expensive and we'd only get a couple more CC and a weaker engine. is there a bike tuner out there that is willing to fit bigger valves as well as porting the head? Battlescooter will do this and most good motorcycle shops will too but you're looking at a lot of money. |
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Post by ZOOMER46 on Jun 22, 2006 14:39:21 GMT -5
:owell,chanito knows those internals well.!!
no point really in having a longer stroke i guess as the engine is already
heavily oversquare in its dimensions,so fair enough dan. seems like your 03
had more problems with bearings,not, the crank surface? looking at the
number of replys to this thread,someone can make some good money with the piston conversion.seems very likely that you guys will get the 4 valve head
and fuel injection like here in europe,as emmisions is what this set-up is really about.why we got it here first and not you is a total mystery to me....
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Post by Dandy Dan on Jun 22, 2006 15:15:17 GMT -5
Stock it's oversquare (38/44) but once it's bored out (41/44) it's not as bad so I think we would be okay with adding a few more mm to the stroke.
My 03 was a huge learning experience for me...I had no prior mechanical skills and I just got the shop manual and tore EVERYTHING apart. I rebuilt the engine, installed my own cam etc. I learned a lot of stuff the hard way. Now I've got a fresh start with my 06.
I think we'll get F.I and 4V but not until after Japan and they're 1-2 years away. I think we're 3-4 years away. There is a lot of interest in a big bore piston because stock is so slow but a lot of people aren't as interested when they here it's only 8cc more and it costs $280 and to really get the benefits you need to do an intake, cam and maybe exhaust too so you're looking at like $1000 to gain 10mph. People are used to 2-strokes which are restricted stock and just require a new variator and exhaust to gain 20mph. Or if they want a big bore engine they get a new sleeve and piston so it just bolts together and you're out $100 and up 30cc. The 4-stroke world is expensive but worth it.
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Post by chanito on Jun 22, 2006 21:11:37 GMT -5
This is just water bottle talk, i do not think we must do the cam with the big bore kit any more than with the stock bore, bigger bore means more torque so more accel power, we should take out more easily and get to 40 mph faster, we will move more air so we will need to re-jet, there is an easy mod to the stock muffler that will help it flow more in case we need it, when i started with this my intension was always as a stand alone mod, it was design like that and hopefully it will be, so 280 plus 200 for the engine work by a pro should cost you 500 not a thousand, obviously it would be nice to do a cam and porting and etc.(as with the stock motor) but should not be a requirement, however i understand the lets way in the side lines until it is proven attitude, it has never been done and we are experimenting in an area where a lot of people have shown and still show opposition and negativity, i am the one with the neck on the line just because all the pros did not want to do it, and it has left me with a bitter feeling and in the future i will let the people making a living on this matter take the reigns, as of now my engine block is in the machine shop, i should get it back tomorrow and i will put it together, take lots of pics, post notes of my tuning problems and progress, hopefully we should end up with a consistent 45-50 mph ruckus, i will sell off all the kits. If not my wife will shoot me, my family will disowned me and every body will laugh at me 
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Post by Dandy Dan on Jun 23, 2006 8:28:24 GMT -5
I imagine that the big bore kit will work well on it's own but doesn't the stock cam have a hard time flowing enough air above 7000rpm for just 50cc's? Anyways, I'm really not the right person to speculate on this because Chanito knows a lot more about building engines than I do. Hopefully he has great results with his stock cam and mod'd exhaust so if we've got the cam we know we're gonna atleast do that well.
I really hope you're able to sell all these kits Chanito...I think you'll be able to but a lot of people will dink around until they see some proven results.
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Post by cwizard on Jun 23, 2006 16:43:40 GMT -5
the hell with waiting around anyways i threw down for the kit 1st... the worst thing in the world that will happen to me is i'll decide to run it for a few thousand miles all stock and then bore the engine out and basically rebuild it  but i will probably do it right away since i cannot wait, and I want to move into metro gears as well after putting the piston and HO cam in. |
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Post by chanito on Jun 23, 2006 20:12:46 GMT -5
Hey Cw did you get your kit yet? also this weekend i will mail you the new windscreen ;D
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Post by cwizard on Jun 23, 2006 21:55:40 GMT -5
yep, and the cam is here... i'm getting a couple jetting kits and a bss air filter, sanjuro is getting his done and another ruckus rider in our hood is gonna do it we're sure, so 3 bikes in this area at the same time and we'll have a re-jetting party and an air intake mod party loooool.
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Post by ZOOMER46 on Jun 23, 2006 21:58:13 GMT -5
hang in there chanito!you seemed down in reply 428.if you can prove it works,which it will,people will buy your ideas.
this thread has been read over 6000 times,so the interest is there!
also it seems that the sleeve is not removable from the engine block?is this true?
so o.k,lets forget the piston thing for a minute and see where we can really go with forced induction,if done properly surely there are big gains to be had in rideability.after all
surely most people are not looking for monster gains ,just get up hills and cruise more easily.abe possibly can help here,as he seemed to know a little about small hondas with superchargers?maybe a electric blower thats does not draw more than the charging system produce and that can be turned on and off as needed.maybe 4 ib pressure is all thats needed to give this engine the same gain as an oversize piston?
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ZoomZoom
Ruckster
'05 Ruckus, '97 Polaris 400L 4X4
Posts: 251
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Post by ZoomZoom on Jun 23, 2006 23:14:09 GMT -5
Chanito, make sure you save me a piston please. Working on the funds still but it shouldn't be much longer now.
Thanks.
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Post by chanito on Jun 24, 2006 6:29:08 GMT -5
 The cyl is part of the engine so it can not be remove, the small size of the piston make finding a machine shop hard and honing a very interesting matter, i had to use some creativity to get this done, i (hopefully) will pick up the engine today, and i willl also go into detail what i had to do to get this done, it was tricky, but i think it will be easier as i solved the problems ;D
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Post by jrcanoe on Jun 25, 2006 0:09:33 GMT -5
Since Honda has no other piston size for the ruckus is it their plan that you have to buy a new block when you wear out your engine. Isn't a normal rebuild of an engine slightly bigger piston and rings and new main bearings. I guess what I'm asking is Even if you buy and put Chanito's piston kit on a shelf for a more frugal rebuild later it should be well worth it.
I doubt mine will sit on the shelf long . But for max miles with engine for lowest dollars spent you could wear out your stock piston rings and bore first before installing the kit.
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Post by Jasper on Jun 25, 2006 2:17:17 GMT -5
these little engines are virtually indestructible!! The mileage on DD's old ruck is incredible!
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Post by ZOOMER46 on Jun 25, 2006 4:47:30 GMT -5
:-/seems like it, more likely to get problems with crank bearings before anything else. sucks that the liner is not removable to just bore out,would make life alot easier.but we live in a throw away society and honda just wants you to buy an engine block,not a liner.just hope they will be available when the first one wears out in 30 years time. surely if they make it, someone can unmake it?wots so mean about the way the the liner is fixed in?
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Post by chanito on Jun 25, 2006 9:15:21 GMT -5
 Well i still have not gotten my engine back, the boring out is done (thank God) but the block still needs to be hone out, (when you bore out, they use a machine that cut the wall of the cylinder and it goes down at the same time, so it leaves a screw kind of finish on the wall, and you have to get rid of it by honing which is running a sandpaper like set of stones up and down in the cyl, so the screw machined in the side wall is grinded away and a cross hatch pattern is leave instead), they did not have a hone small enough for the cyl, but we found out the the hone machine for connecting rods was small enough to do the job, so it has to go to another shop and have them hone the cyl wall with a connecting rod machine, by the way the only people with a boring machine small enough for the ruckus engine was a shop that works on ATV and wave runners, and they seem extremely busy on the summer
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