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Post by Dandy Dan on Sept 24, 2004 14:08:09 GMT -5
well i went back to dealer to get the correct size and he insisted that they weren't generic to all models but i insisted they were and asked to see the box. He said they didn't even have a box. Just then a mechanic walked up front and he asked the mechanic if they had a box of shims back there and he was like 'Oh yeah, i grab it for ya!' In the end it turned out the they didn't have the size i needed but it was still nice being right. In the end i ordered the shims and now they are installed and my scoot is running like new again. Its a bit faster when cruisin and it definately goes faster down hills etc. It seems happier to run up into the higher rpms. Thanks for all your help on this one abe.
- Dan
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Post by abe on Sept 25, 2004 0:48:59 GMT -5
You won  That's cool, you are on your way to slick mechanicsville. As long as you keep an open mind you'll be a star mechanic in no time ;D |
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Post by Vishnuk on Sept 25, 2004 1:29:24 GMT -5
I have a feeling your instructions will make sense once I open up my scoot, but what do you mean by "Find out the max gauge that will fit and the one that just barely drags." Drags against what and in what way? And what precisely is dragging? The valves? The shim? What is it dragging on?  I don't want to have to let the dealers touch my scoot and defile her. |
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Post by scrible88 on Sept 25, 2004 22:03:27 GMT -5
I have a feeling your instructions will make sense once I open up my scoot, but what do you mean by "Find out the max gauge that will fit and the one that just barely drags." Drags against what and in what way? And what precisely is dragging? The valves? The shim? What is it dragging on? I don't want to have to let the dealers touch my scoot and defile her. Tux!  |
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Post by Dandy Dan on Sept 25, 2004 23:57:14 GMT -5
What you are trying to do is measure the size of the gap between the shim and thinger that pushes on it. You need a feeler gauge (7-10$) which has a whole bunch of metal strips that resemble popsicles sticks only much thinner. They are all different thicknesses. Just stick the thinnest one in the gap (the thickness is writing on each one) and see how well it fits. It'll probably be to small (depended on the range of thicknesses your feeler gauge covers) so its be a loose fit. To find the 'max gauge that will fit' just keep trying bigger sizes until you find the one that you can just so slide in. The one that 'just barely drags' will be thinner that the max gauge that fits. This will be the one that slides in nicely, not slopping around but not hard to slide in either. Once you've figured this out just average the two thicknesses to get the actual thickness of gap. Once you know the gap size just see how that compares to what its supposed to be (check the first page of this thread) and at a bigger or more likely a smaller shim, to correct the size. Typically your gap will be smaller than recommended so you'll want to reduce the size of the shim to enlarge the gap he's a sample of the math: Recommended Intake Gap: 0.10mm Max Gauge That fits: 0.08mm Gauge that 'barely drags': 0.06mm Average Gauge: 0.07mm So your off by 0.03mm (0.10mm - 0.07mm) Then look to see what size shim you got (you can slide the thinger that pushed on the shim (rocker arm? ) out of the way). Mine was a 225 (which is 2.25mm) So your new shim needed is 2.22 (2.25 - 0.03mm). The 2.22 shim will just say 222 on it. Then repeat with the other valve (exhaust) which has a recommended gap of 0.19mm. Don't get confused by this next part cuz its not too important: Honda sells the shims in increments of 0.025mm so you'll have to take the closest one. Here are the sizes they come in: ..............2.15, 2.175,2.20, 2.225,2.25, 2.275 etc.... On the shim the numbers would be .......215, 218,220,222,225,228 etc. Once you got your new shim just slide the rocker piece out of the way and using a magnet suck the old one out and slide in the new one. Presto! |
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Post by Vishnuk on Sept 26, 2004 3:47:12 GMT -5
Dandydan, I'm going to recommend that you be placed with the pantheon of Ruckus gods. Go now, and father a child with a mere mortal. You deserve it!
Once again, thanks for the wonderful explanation (take note abe, write this stuff down).
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Post by scrible88 on Sept 26, 2004 10:34:10 GMT -5
Dandydan, I'm going to recommend that you be placed with the pantheon of Ruckus gods. Go now, and father a child with a mere mortal. You deserve it! Once again, thanks for the wonderful explanation (take note abe, write this stuff down). DandyDan is absolutely kickarse at explaining things! |
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Post by abe on Oct 2, 2004 2:24:18 GMT -5
Ya, I think I can skip over things some times. I've worked on stuff all my life so it's hard to cover all the angles, I just do it without thinking.
Have all you guys read the valve adjust info on battlescooter?
I may confuse things by saying to determine the gauge that barely drags and the biggest one that fits. I did this so people could learn the feel for the drag on the gauge. It takes years to learn but this way you can be a pro in no time ;D
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Post by Hanamichi on Oct 16, 2004 11:34:46 GMT -5
Hey guys. You'll have to pardon my extreme ignorance but...
How do you open the engine? I tried under the seat, left side, right side. Can't figure out how you get to the stage that battlescooter.com instructions start from.
Thanks a lot guys
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Post by Dandy Dan on Oct 16, 2004 11:43:19 GMT -5
Been there. remove seat frame completely (6 bolts) remove front plasic cover (several screws) this lets you remove floorboard (8 bolts). Now you have access to the engine. You'll see the engine right behind the fuel tank and the cover you need to remove is right on the front. It has 5 (8mm???) bolts it it. Don't overtighten them when you put them back in. Also try not to dislodge the rubber band like seal cuz its a pain to get back in.
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Post by zoomerman on Nov 8, 2004 12:06:50 GMT -5
I checked my valves yesterday. The procedure went pretty smoothly. The valves on mine are a little on the loose side, definitely not tight, so I left them that way. I have 1100 miles on my Ruckus.
Here are my two tips for Ruckus owners attempting this procedure:
;D When you remove the valve cover there's a long noodle-like gasket that may be half in the valve cover and half stuck to the engine, be slow and careful with it. It goes back into the valve cover, in it's little trough (ditch around the perimeter) and it will seem to be way too long to fit back in there properly (it's a loop) be patient and work it in, don't stretch it in, press it in, it fits loosely.
;D Battlescooter says turn the engine over by hand to get to TDC (valves with no pressure on them) but I don't remember it saying how to turn it over by hand. So I removed the left hand side cover (belt drive cover) and turned the front pulley. And looking in the sparkplug hole with a flashlight lets you see the piston moving.
All in all it's a nice job, and it's fun to see the valves move while turning the engine over by hand.
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Post by peshkabz on Nov 8, 2004 15:13:42 GMT -5
OUTSTANDING THREAD!!! VERY good stuff - I applaud you all!! |
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Post by Dandy Dan on Nov 8, 2004 15:52:20 GMT -5
An easier way to turn the engine over by hand is to use the kickstart. this'll save you removing the drive cover.
Also i don't recomend this but i couldn't get the rubber sealing gasket thinger back into the groove so i just cut a small (half inch?) piece out of it and then overlapped the ends so it still seals. I don't think too much is really going on there that creates a lot of pressure on this seal. I did it months ago and so far nothing has been leaking. If something does go wrong you could always spend a couple bucks on a new one.
I don't recommend this. Certaintly try to get it back it but if you can't be reassured that you're not totally screwed.
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Post by abe on Nov 9, 2004 5:16:38 GMT -5
About the valve cover gasket-
Do not do this job with a warm or hot engine. Let the engine cool over night then check the clearances. If the engine has been run the measurements won't be accurate and the gasket won't fit back in.
Sorry for leaving out the steps up to removing the valve cover. This was done to keep people from getting in over their heads ;D
I'm glad people are doing this procedure. It's important and really makes you feel good. Trust me, you can do a better job than the dealer because you care more about your scoot than them ;D
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bluesmokeracing
Ruckster
vote for me and all your wildest dreams will come true
Posts: 253
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Post by bluesmokeracing on Apr 30, 2005 19:03:10 GMT -5
i noticed mine was running a little slower so i checked my valves. at tdc compression they were at .09mm exhaust and i couldnt get a feeler of .05 under the intake! my ruck has about 600 miles on it. that kinda scares me. is this a normal thing for them to move this much? the m3's i work on might tighten .03 in 30,000 miles with about the same valve shim setup. |
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Post by pomeruck on May 8, 2005 20:21:20 GMT -5
So all this seems pretty cool and staright forward, but what if you want to install a battlescooter cam shaft? abviously the aftermarket cam's lobes are all different and stuff right? is replacing the camshaft difficult? ...also, is the valve adjustment with the new cam the same only with different parameters? anyone?
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Post by Dandy Dan on May 9, 2005 11:19:18 GMT -5
Well I haven't personally done it but I think the problem with the install is that the cam lobes are bigger so that they increase both how far the valve opens and how long it's open. This means that the lobe now hits the rubber valve seal when it's fully opened. You can either just remove the seals and you'll burn a bit of oil on startup which isn't a huge deal or you can grind the valve seal holders down a bit and put new notches em in so that the seal is lower. As far as I know this is the only issue. You can ship you engine to abe and he'll grind em down for ya real nice and do the install for a fair price or you can just remove the seals and get anyone to do it. If you do send it to abe he'll could also port and polish your scoot for not much more $$$ I think so if you can handle the downtime it's a great option.
I think the actual valve adjustment procedure is the exact same with the H.O. cam cuz on the new cam only the lobes are different and the lobes shouldn't be touching anything during the valve gap adjustment procedure.
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Post by scootspeed on May 11, 2005 8:15:21 GMT -5
a little h.p. tip on valve adjustments.
when setting valve lash, set it as tight as possible.
the exhaust likes little lash. i am
talking .002 exhaust, .002/.004 on the intake.
why it works is you are effectively giving the cam more
lift with tighter lash. more lift, more power. for sure.
try it, there are no drawbacks, the stock cam is not
radical and will not hit the pistons.
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Post by chanito on May 11, 2005 8:29:04 GMT -5
 Great idea, bad engine to do so, our ruckus engine tend to sink the valves in the valve seat, if you set your valves too tight, more than likelly you would burn the valves, so unless you plan to do a valve job soon do not try it.
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Post by Dandy Dan on May 12, 2005 21:05:51 GMT -5
Chanito: I don't totally understand what you mean by 'sink the valves in the valve seat'. Can you explain a bit more simply for us dummies out there and perhaps explain why this is bad but the H.O. cam isn't. (or does the H.O. cam cause this too?). By the way new valves are less than 10$ each (US$) but the work involved would likely be a chore.
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