Camshaft?

[nicad]

Bump on this.

-Ian

[Ruckass]

Bump on this??

Ruckass

[nicad]

Common term used on messegeboards to revive threads that are on the edge of leaving the main page. ;D

-Ian

[Dandy Dan]

I'm still planning on getting the cam but I gotta wait until May cuz I'm up in Ottawa for a co-op job until then. My brother back in Waterloo is a gearhead and he said he'd help me install the cam and port/polish the engine. That way I don't have to spend a load of cash shipping my engine across the border and all the work will be done for free.

I've finally got every mod on my ruckus running perfect so I'm ready for the cam. My CDI works great, my valves are shimmed perfectly and my carb is shimmed/jetted to perfection. I'm cruisin at 40mph easy in a tuck after 1 or 2 mins of warmup and after maybe 15min warmup I can hit 41mph on a long enough straight away. This is with a completely stock variator. I had my ruckus in the shop for some warrentee work (see "oh no! my ruckus is having problems' section) and they replaced the whole thing and put stock weights back in. When I order the cam i'll order a set of 5grams to mix in with the stockers and then i'll really be zippin. The only scary part is that down any hill i'm up to 45mph and the poor engine is really screaming. I've got a shorter spacer floating around that i'll through in at the same time.

[Dandy Dan]

Hey Abe,
How's the cam working out for ya? Is it running nice still or has the engine blown up? I'd like to hear a bit more feedback on it before i order mine. Can you still get it going 50mph and how short is your variator spacer to do that? Thanks...

[Ruckass]

ditto! More information makes me feel more confidant about buying the cam. Have there been any problems at all?

Ruckass

[Dandy Dan]

Hi Abe,
I got a few questions about the camshaft.

1) Is the duration of the lobes longer than the stock cam or is the lift just higher? Or both?

2) I'm assuming the lift is higher and that causes the rocker arm to hit the valve seal. The work that you are doing when you cut down the valve guides is you shorten them and then machine a new groove to hold the seal. Correct?

3) Is the exhaust lobe also increased to a point where that valve guide needs to be modified as well?

4) With a high lift cam like this are the stock springs ok or are they bottoming out and I would need shorter ones for it to work properly?

5) How bad is it to simply remove the valve seals? Are the only negatives that you use more oil (from the oil running down the valve and being burned at startup)(a lot more oil??) and you have to live with the fact that you took the cheap way out? Or is it going to do damage to engine life or something? It would only smoke at startup correct?

6) Is it possible to do complete cam install and the port/polishing etc. if I just send you the head?

Thanks,
Dan

[abe]

Hi, the cam is great. The motor screams. I don't know what else to say.

The Ruckus is already high lift but we added more lift as well as more duration. Adding more lift meant that guides need cutting or the seals need to be removed. I mentioned that earlier in the thread. If you remove the seals it's no big deal. You can also just leave them in...you didn't hear that from me. Installing the cam is almost the same as installing the head. All the same parts need to come off and go on. With the head removed the cam will fall out if you are not paying attention

I would like to hear from others who have the cam. I did talk to one person who didn't port the head correctly who wasn't totally happy. When I say port the head I'm not talking port matching, it's a Honda not a Suzuki or some junky Chinese thing. It needs bigger smoother ports not someone to port match. You can great some porting info on www.Battlescooter.com in tech.

[Dandy Dan]

Ok, sounds good. I should be ordering one soon (week or two). My brother has rebuilt many small engines and he's confident he'll figure mine out.

[Dandy Dan]

Well, I went ahead and ordered the camshaft so expect a full 'how-to" (inc. pics) and a review in a couple weeks.

[chanito]

Oh man, Dandy i am allready looking forward to that, congrats, please take a lot of pictures of your porting job,and let us know how much it throws the carb set up, ;D

[Dandy Dan]

I do still have a few things to figure. Regarding the cam not being a bolt in mod. I'm still trying to decide between these 4 options. Any advice would be great.

1) - Remove the seals (pros = fast 'n easy, cons = burn a bit of oil but should only be a puff at startup)

2) - Leave the seals in (pros = extremely fast and easy, cons = I don't know, does this stress your cam hitting them a thousand times a second? There must be something negative or abe would call this part a bolt in mod.)

3) - Cut the seals down. I'm not sure if this is an option cuz it's my brothers idea. (If it works, pros = pretty fast, kinda easy, cons = nothing if I get them low enough)

4) - Do the job right. Remove the valve guides and get them altered to hold the valve seals lower. (pros = a job well done, works perfect, cons = downtime, slow, have to ask my friend to do it at work)

If number 3 works it sounds like a sweet option. Number 1 is probably my 2nd choice, then #4 and then #2.

I also have a few question regarding porting the engine. My bro is comfortable polishing the engine but he's a little wary of the porting cuz he's not sure how big to make em. Here's what I'm wondering:

1 - Is porting really necessary to get the full juice out of the cam or is it just a nice thing to do since I'm in there anyways?

2 - Abe says 'you can match the intake manifold to the head'. Ok, that part makes sense I just dremel out the manifold until the size is the exact same as the head but how much bigger should I make the exhaust port? Abe says on battlescooter you never want to match em cuz that will wreck the 'savaging' effect the muffler has. Should I just leave the size the same and polish it or should I make it a little bigger? If the port was say a 6mm on one side and say 10mm on the muffler end (I know it's an extreme difference) should I just split the difference and make it 8mm?

Lastly questions about the carb. Here's my thoughts: The carb is responsible for mixing the air and fuel in the right proportions. When one does a mod such as opening up the airbox you mess up these proportions cuz there's more air entering the carb and not more fuel. The solution of course is to increase the amount of fuel. However with the cam you aren't upsetting this balance in the same way. You're simply using more of the finished mix that the carb is spitting out. For this reason will the cam not completely mess things way up? Or another thought: Maybe the cam will still totally mess things up because the carb is already pumping maximum gas into the mix so if you try to use more of this mix (via new cam) the airflow is able to adjust but the gas can't so you lean out. Lastly, do you think the changes the cam makes will be fairly linear across the rpm range (thus only needed a jet change) or biased towards one end like opening the airbox affects the end more (thus needing the whole 9 yards)? My bro seems to think the cam may make a bigger difference at higher RPMS's which might actually be nice from a tuning perspective cuz it would be the opposite effect of opening the airbox and thus I might need less shimming and just a bigger jet...Your thoughts???

Note: I have an appointment for my Ruckus at the dealer on the 24th to fix a few things (cap came off left fork leg and the shock doesn't rebound, and the hose from the airbox to the carb cracked open at the end of the mushroom shaped bit, likely from me being to rough with it plus the heat etc may have weakened it) as the warrentee is about to expire. So I'm planning on doing the install probably the next saturday the 28th.

[chanito]

Those are very nice questions, however the answers may not be very clear, regarding the seals, probably just getting two new ones and shaving them like your brother said would be my option numero uno, the scary part is the porting, ok matching ports is a good idea but has been proven that the best is to have the part closer to the carb smaller than the part closer to the muffler, that is, you want the part in the intake to be a little smaller than the head, so it will serve as a step preventing flow from flowing backward,and you want the transitions to be as smooth as you can make them, but keep the valve seat the smallest part in the intake flow, in the exhaust you want the flow more or less even untill the exhaust pipe to keep speed high, making cardboard templates is a great idea, i will try later to make some drawings and post them for you, the carb is affected by the pulses generated by the new cam, so messing with the main jet and the needle becomes a necesity, i will try to get back with some ideas later

[Dandy Dan]

Thanks for the help. It was a good start and we'll help me as I spend the next couple weeks planning it before the cam gets here.

[Robo-Mod]

I not worried about gaining top speed, but I'm looking for better acceleration. Does the cam increase acceleration? Currently I'm getting up to 40mph in about 2.5 blocks. It would beel sweet if I could get up to 40 in half a block. *high hopes*

[chanito]

The easiest fix for that is either an aftermarket variator or a set of 5.5 grams variator weights, there is a bunch of threads on this variator stuff so do some research and you should be on your merry way to scooterheaven

[Dandy Dan]

If you haven't already successfully played with your variator, intake and carb and installed a CDI I wouldn't consider the cam. The cam should improve accel. but there are much easier ways of doing it. I've been playing with my Ruckus for a year now and this cam install is still scary. I've gotta install it properly, then I gotta revamp the whole carb and then once it's running good I gotta mess with my variator again cuz I'll need it geared taller. I'll probably go as tall as possible like Chanito and file down the plates and shorten the spacer to 34mm or so. Whatever gets it right to the edges without going over. If Chanito is going 43mph at 7600rpm then abe must be screaming pretty good at 50mph (my math indicates almost 9K) if he's geared the same as Chanito (abe going 60mph down a hill must make his ears bleed). Personally I don't want to cruise at 9K so I wish there was a way to gear things taller still so I can run say 48mph at 8000rpm.

Hey here's another off the wall idea I had: Instead of shortening the variator spacer to gear things taller could we just instead put a wider belt in? If we put a 2mm wider belt it should have the same effect as shortening the spacer. It would be more expensive but it might appeal to many because it's much quicker, easier, requires less tools and the BSS could sell em. I don't know if anyone makes a belt in this size but it's just another idea I'm throwin out there. My brother told me about a guy who was restoring a old Honda NH80 scoot and he was wondering why the top end was gone. Turns out the belt had worn down from 14mm to 10mm. Perhaps people should changed their belts every few years if they wanna maintain there top end.

[chanito]

The only problem i see is that the wider belt would be too tight in the place it is now (the variator case is not that big) but i share your concern of a too high a cruising rpm for our motor, i am hitting the rev limiter now and i am only going 43mph (only on very good days) so like you i thing 50 will require close to 9k (normally i cruise at 42 at 7600) and at least one more hp (thats over 20% increase), our options are either change the ratio in the rear end (a provability) or make the clutch part of the variator smaller, you ask a very good question, we have to do some research , and probably get Abe to share his secrets with us

[bluesmokeracing]

well, if you make the clutch side smaller, the belt on the variator will get too big and hit the case the same thing happens if you cut your variator spacer too small or put a shaved spacer on a aftermarkt variator. bigger tires would change the ratio a little though...

[Dandy Dan]

Yeah I was thinking about the tire option too. With bigger wheels we'd need to remove the fenders though which isn't that appealing. Does anyone make tires bigger than 130/90 for 10" rims? If not we'd need to 12" which gets really expensive cuz you need new tires, rims and hubs from the BSS which is probably 500$. Plus personally I prefer black rims off the silver ones anyways. If only getting the metro rear clutch in there was an easier option.