Xmas-time thoughts

[Kami no Chiizu]

So, seeing as how I work for a newspaper, and look over all the pages before and after they get printed, I tend to spend a bit of time reading the paper, and a lot of things, especailly on the opinions page bother me. A few days back, there was a group of people protesting at Wal-Marts (plural, not redneck-speak), because there is supposedly no mention of x-mas in their stores (of course, I would offend them by typing Xmas instead of Christmas, but I'm a controversial person, I suppose).

And it seems, every day, someone wants to write into one of the papers and complain about taking the Christ out of Christmas, or that they shouldn't take Xmas and turn it into some holiday for everyone, and the most imaginative one yet, that "holiday" comes from "Holy Day" which means "a day or series of days observed in Judaism with commemorative ceremonies and practices" So, they don't like being told to celebrate a Jewish holiday, even their the only one interpreting it that way.

This all just has me up in arms.

First of all, if the protestor's are such wonderful christians, then why aren't they out doing something more useful with their times, like helping the poor and homeless. If they've got time to stand outside a department store with a sign, why don't they donate some time to a homeless shelter or go down and help hurricane victims (or have we forgot about them)?

I went to Wal-Mart, the other day, I go often. I saw some trees for sale. I looked at the price tag for one. It was labeled a "Christmas Tree" Hmmm.... Then, I looked at a lawn decoration. It was an inflatable Santa Clause with a sign reading "Merry Christmas." Without even trying, I found the word Christmas, twice. And I didn't even head to the Christmas cards... How bizarre.

It's not about that. Happy Holidays, as I've always used it, is meant to tell you to have a good time celebrating whatever holiday you want to celebrate, from the time between Thanksgiving into the New Year. Whether that include Christmas, or Channukah, or even Kwanzaa, I don't care, that's your business. It's all in how you interpret things.

The fact that some Christians are so bull-headed arrogant to be personally offended when somebody says something other than Xmas, well, that's when I become offended. And feel shame to occasionally referr to myself as a Christian. The gall of some people.

I'm not trying to get some debate or anything started, I just felt the need to rant for a minute. Hopefully the press will get started by 1 am, and I can get out of here...

[chanito]

;D Well Kami i respect your opinion, but i totally disagree with you on this one, Christmas is a holiday started for celebrating the birth of Christ, some centuries ago, the people decided to celebrate his event with a gift exchange and a feast, in most western countries this is the family feast and gathering we associate with Thanksgiving, but lately politically correctness means we should forget the reason for this event because it might offend some people (i do not see why) and that is just not right, if celebrating the birth of Christ offend you, you have some other problems, but i have a right to celebrate it, and i should be allow to say so.
Here in Miami, we have a lot of Jews and we have become used to have every Jewish holiday be a teacher work day, so there is no school for the kids, and i find that a great idea, because teachers need the days to do some work without the kids, and that community can celebrates their holidays.
Political correctness is getting extreme, i work in a dealership where there is a no customers policy on the shop, but they not allow you to hang any calendar or poster that has girls in bikinis (forget about nudity), because it might offend somebody ( who? ), by the way we do not have female technicians, also you have to keep your stereo volume low, so if i listen to Latin music it will not offend my fellow tech who are not Latin, and they have to keep their rap music or country music low

[ace1969]

chanito said:

;D Well Kami i respect your opinion, but i totally disagree with you on this one, Christmas is a holiday started for celebrating the birth of Christ, some centuries ago, the people decided to celebrate his event with a gift exchange and a feast, in most western countries this is the family feast and gathering we associate with Thanksgiving, but lately politically correctness means we should forget the reason for this event because it might offend some people (i do not see why) and that is just not right, if celebrating the birth of Christ offend you, you have some other problems, but i have a right to celebrate it, and i should be allow to say so.
Here in Miami, we have a lot of Jews and we have become used to have every Jewish holiday be a teacher work day, so there is no school for the kids, and i find that a great idea, because teachers need the days to do some work without the kids, and that community can celebrates their holidays.
Political correctness is getting extreme, i work in a dealership where there is a no customers policy on the shop, but they not allow you to hang any calendar or poster that has girls in bikinis (forget about nudity), because it might offend somebody ( who? ), by the way we do not have female technicians, also you have to keep your stereo volume low, so if i listen to Latin music it will not offend my fellow tech who are not Latin, and they have to keep their rap music or country music low

Chanito I couldn't agree with you more. I also believe the Pledge of Allegiance should still be in school and our money should for ever say In God We Trust . This country was founded with a strong christian beliefs, and if someone is offended by such beliefs they can move. Go back to the middle east or where ever you or your ancestors came from and be with the other people who share in your religion. This countries founders came here because they couldn't have freedom of religion where they were and no we the people are losing that right again!!!

[Dandy Dan]

I'm a Christian and Christmas did start off as a Christian holiday. I don't think anyone should be offended when they hear the phrase 'Merry Christmas' because, first, it's not meant as an in your face shot but rather a cheerful, good natured greeting and secondly, since this holiday did start off as a Christian holiday it does seem unfair to tell the people who started it that they can't use it's name anymore.

I think that everyone needs to take a chill pill.

However, I do think that the role of our government is to be a good steward of our money and to properly manage the country. I don't think the government should have a socially defining role and influence. A big reason our ancestors came to north america was for freedom and so having a government that forces religion isn't any better than one that bans it. I'm a big fan of free will. I think people should be able to make their own choices and hopefully they'll come to the right one but they shouldn't be forced to do so. For that reason, I think government should be neutral.

Conversely, I think private companies should have the freedom to do whatever the heck they want and if you don't like it then you don't have to shop there. We should all have the freedom to run a store that can operate however we like it to and not be restricted. There are some good arguments for censorship but non of them apply to something as minor as the name of a holiday. If a company wants to be ultra paranoid and only wish people happy holidays and not merry christmas then that's their call. They shouldn't be forced either way. So in summary, I think companies should have the freedom to do what they want and they mostly do although some of them are perswaded by a very vocal small minority who want the word Christ out which seems at least as rediculous as the Christians who are arguing back and saying lets keep the name of our holiday. I think that any Christians who are arguing this are a bit caught up in the small details but it's not really the worst thing they could be doing.

Quote Kami:
"The fact that some Christians are so bull-headed arrogant to be personally offended when somebody says something other than Xmas, well, that's when I become offended. And feel shame to occasionally referr to myself as a Christian. The gall of some people."

I don't agree with this. Christians who are arguing to keep Christ in Christmas are doing so not because they find the term Xmas so offensive but rather because they are trying to keep their heritage intact. Any culture or religion in the world does this. They are bothered by the losing of the word Christ, not by the introduction of the word Xmas. Christmas is the biggest celebration of the year for Christians so banning it's name could be annoying. I think the whole debate is really a small minority of non-Christians who want the word Christ out because they either want to turn Christmas into a just a big end of the year bash with presents and eliminate religion from it or because they don't like the attention christian gets vs. their religion. These same people likely watch movies all the time where people say 'Oh my God!' or 'Jesus Christ!That was painful!' and aren't offended. It's not the word Christ that bothers them...they just want Christmas to move from a Christian holiday to a generic universal one. The Christians are really just responding and saying, 'hey it's our holiday, don't go changing our name on us'. Christianity, as the biggest religion in North America is always the one getting attacked. If Raddaman (sp? sorry..) blew up into a huge holiday too the Arabs would be upset if we tried to change the name to Summer-athon.

I don't think your poll asks the best question because it's not the use of the term happy holidays that offends people. Some people are offended by the term Christmas and others argue back so they can to use the word still but no one cries cuz someone wished them happy holidays.

[kzuckus]

Bah, humbug.

[chanito]

I am not as extreme as Ace, but it bothers me that the majority have to comply with the hyper sensitive minority, and remember i am Hispanic so i am a minority member, it does not bother me the happy holidays, what bothers me is that if i say merry Christmas then i am look at if i am insulting people, like i am an insensible guy, which i am not.
I agree with DD, saying Merry Christmas is wishing you have a good time during this Christmas time, and should not be offensive to anybody, but it seems it is to someone, so now nobody can say it, and that bothers the heck out of me, so by the way
MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYBODY, and if you do not celebrate Christmas, have a merry time anyway ;D ;D

[Kami no Chiizu]

I'm not talking about the term Xmas, which I use just to offend a friend of mine. I just don't find it silly someone would get offended over being offered a "Happy Holidays" instead of a "Merry Christmas"

Last I checked, Christmas was a holiday, and you can celebrate whatever you want. Just don't be offended by someone choosing not to say Christmas. That's just petty.

There are more important things to worry about than whether someone calls out your holiday by name. Like worrying about our Furher...

[chanito]

I guess you are missing the point Kamino, the problem i see is not that people will wish me a happy holiday (which they also can do on the 4 of july or labor day) is the need for it, that holiday name is Christmas, so a merry Christmas should not offend anyone, but it does to some sensitive souls, and WE HAVE TO CALL IT happy holidays.
Someone wishing me a happy holiday does not bothers me, is the fact that i have to say it instead of just merry Christmas, that bothers me. Comprendes? (Do you understand now? you Zuma lover)

[Kami no Chiizu]

Well, I don't like anyone forcing somebody to say "Happy Holidays" if that's not what they want to say.

But I choose to say it, since you know, Christmas isn't the only holiday this time of year. And I don't think anyone should get offended over what I choose to say to someone, or even what someone is forced to say.

In the end, it's all words. I don't get offended when someone says that's a nice scooter I've got, instead of that's a nice Ruckus. I don't even get offended when they call it a moped. Maybe that's apples and oranges, but that's how I see it. If people didn't get so quick to be offended, there'd be a lot less anger and hate in this world.

Thanks for your opinions, guys. I didn't mean to start a debate or anything, I just wanted to rant about something that bothered me this time of year when we should all be embracing peace and one another.

[SqUiRmInAtOr/ Phred 501]

If you study the origin of the gift giving holiday we now call Christmas you will find that it's beginning was actualy a pagan commercial holiday designed to boost retail sales. We have one of the popes to thank for linking the buying frenzy to Christ. History best estimates the actual season of Christ's birth to be somewhere in AUGUST. Personally, I love the LORD!! I can't see hear or say the name JESUS or CHRIST too much. The thought that these words are offensive goes in harmony with the fact that evil hates good and any promotion linked to The Redeemer will always meet with staunch oposition. I am ashamed that at times I am tepmted to comply with the forces of evil by not specifying JESUS as the source of everything worthy and wonderful in my life.
So Merry CHRISTmas to you and yours.

[Dandy Dan]

phred501 said:

If you study the origin of the gift giving holiday we now call Christmas you will find that it's beginning was actualy a pagan commercial holiday designed to boost retail sales.

Well then it sounds like it's reverting back quickly. I did a bit of quick reading and it seemed to be saying that there were pagan holiday events around this time having to do with mainly their sun God cuz they noticed that after Dec. 22 the days were getting longer so they wanted to celebrate. However the actual work Christmas is totally a Roman Catholic word (Christ + Mass) and Christmas came from them celebrating the coming of Christ. The pagan events didn't turn into Christmas but rather were more slowly replaced by it. Oh, and you're right about the dating thing that Dec. 25th is pretty far off but I thought that the real date was somewhere in the spring. The phrase 'while shepards watched their flocks by night' indicates that it was the birthing season for sheep as that's the only time of the year the sheppards watch them 24/7. And the birthing season of the sheep is early spring I believe.

[crumblerust]

Merry Happy Cristmas Holidays Everyone...

I only wonder why this topic really matters?

We are conditioned

[Kami no Chiizu]

It doesn't matter, it's a small diversion from all the technical mumbo jumble and the spaming jibber jabber.

[Backlater]

Happy Yule Tide !!!

[crumblerust]

I found a poem online to bring to your string. My intention is not to offend but to offer another perspective. Please keep an open mind...

The Bible is bullsh!t

In the history of the human race
Of all the inspirations for the separation of man from his true tribal culture
Of all the inspirations for the acts of violence from one man onto another
From one nation onto another, from one oppressor onto the oppressed
There is no more guilty party and inspiration than those books known
As the Holy Bible, the Koran, and the Bagavad Gita to spread separation of mankind

The Bible is bullsh!t, the Koran is a lie
The Bagavad Gita did not fall from the sky
These are the books that were written by men
They've caused wars, now follow if you can

They took away our love and gave us fear
Tried to make us hate the one who put us here
Then they took our sacred songs and made them wrong
Then they took away our prayers and gave us theirs

The Bible is bullsh!t, the Koran is a lie
The Bagavad Gita did not fall from the sky
These are the books that are written by men
They've caused wars, now follow if you can

First they created sin so they could win
Then they built the cages they could put us in
Then they took away our tribes and gave us jail
Then they took away the Earth and gave us hell

The Bible is bullsh!t, the Koran is a lie
The Bagavad Gita did not fall from the sky
These are the books that are written by men
They've caused wars, now follow if you can

It's time for you to love one another
It's time for you to recognize your brother
It's time for us to stop killing our mother
It's time for us to care for each other

The Bible is bullsh!t

[crumblerust]

freedom of speech to speak freely on Ruckus Central Rocks

[Dandy Dan]

crumblerust said:

It's time for you to love one another
It's time for you to recognize your brother
It's time for us to stop killing our mother
It's time for us to care for each other

I think you'll find that all of these books teach what is quoted above. The 2n greatest commandment in the Bible is:

Love your neighbour as yourself.

I'd suggest that these books (Bible, Koran, Torah etc) are not the true cause of the problems being discussed but rather they are used as a scapegoat by people who want to justify their actions.

When people say the crusades were caused by the bible that's simple not true. What happened was the kings and rulers of that period selfishly wanted more land/territory so they used religion as an excuse and fed crap to their people like 'God is telling me to do this' or 'we need to save these people' by forcing them to convert etc. By telling their people that they are doing it for God they are wrongly trying to justify their actions. No where in the bible does it says to forcefully convert people. If you read the Bible you'll find that it strongly emphasizes free will and free choice. God doesn't want a huge race of robots mindlessly following him. He wants people to choose to follow him. For that reason, it'll never be possible to prove God exists. If you could prove God exists then of course we'd all believe in him but we wouldn't really mean it and our hearts wouldn't be into it...you need to look for him to find him.

To really judge something you need to look at what it says and then see if the people that claim to be following it are doing that. You can't judge something by the actions a few people who claim to be members yet their actions are complete counter to everything it teaches.

Just like the Koran doesn't advocate Muslims crashing planes into the Twin Towers the Bible doesn't advocate crusading across europe.

I think if you do some research you'll find that the parties in wars related to religion are disillusioned and are actually acting out of pride (ie. our religion is better than yours so we're gonna take over and save you) or it's just people acting out their selfish interests and using religion as an excuse.

[crumblerust]

Hello friend ;D

I didn't write that poem. I shared it as input to this string of silliness

I figured I'de throw some more relligious BS in the pot.
I don't believe in organized religion. No, I'm not an athiest.
I'de have to acknowledge your god's existance in order to deny it.

You are right to believe in what you want.
I am right to choose not to believe

Whatever is written , influences anyone who reads it.
be carful what you believe in...

Research is for regurgitation of old style thinking

I think for myself

[Kami no Chiizu]

Ah, that was good.

I do think that it doesn't matter what god if any you beleive in, as long as you truly beleive it, you're right. I think if there is a god, he/she/it reaches each person however they need to be reached.

So, when the time comes, I hope to see each one of you in Valhalla, fighting by my side.

[chanito]

This is Sad, as a man who LOVES TO READ, i find very distuving that people forget that the main cause of religion is an explanation for what can not be explain, faith is just believing something without cientific proof, no matter how much you know (or think you do) there is so much that can not be explain now, so we need a superior being to explain that, ok so that is the cold facts. The thruth is that believing in a God and having morals is healthy, because it free your mind to actually concentrate in more concrete matters, over doing it as Kimi said is also a problem.
I am Catholic, i got to mass every weekend, and i thank God i have a healthy family and a bunch of friends, and this nice forum to interchange opinions with some other people, and i feel very sorry for people that goes about their daily live without the hope of an afterlife or the peace of knowing there are things that you can not change and accept it, peace and love is always nice but sadly is not real and never was