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Post by chanito on Jul 31, 2008 12:10:37 GMT -5
Installing bigger bolts sounds good if you are going to do all 6 head bolts and enlarge the holes in the head to install 8mm bolts, the problem is that you need to be perfect in all six bolts (very hard to do unless you have a machine shop) and one of the long headbolt holes in the head is also an oil passage so you will need to modify the bigger bolthole the same way, i think is wiser to just go for the helicoil
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Post by andr01dm on Jul 31, 2008 13:34:53 GMT -5
??? Installing bigger bolts sounds good if you are going to do all 6 head bolts and enlarge the holes in the head to install 8mm bolts, the problem is that you need to be perfect in all six bolts (very hard to do unless you have a machine shop) and one of the long headbolt holes in the head is also an oil passage so you will need to modify the bigger bolthole the same way, i think is wiser to just go for the helicoil ??? It's only the two short bolt holes (red.. there's one hidden behind the engine block in the above diagram) that I need to fix, the four long ones (green) didn't have any problems with being torqued to 12 Nm.
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Post by andr01dm on Jul 31, 2008 17:24:17 GMT -5
Canadian Tire doesn't have metric drill bits.. metric tap and die, sure, metric bolts, no problem, but no metric drill bits. So no sale on the tap and die kit for them.. and no way to repair my bike for me.
After I got home I phone around and it seems none of the usual hardware stores carry metric drill bits.. there's an "industrial trade supply" store that I'll be calling tomorrow.. they close at 5pm. They might have 'em.. then again...
Why is it so difficult to get a simple metric drill bit in Canada? I may end up having to use the nearest imperial equivalent...
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Post by chanito on Jul 31, 2008 18:21:23 GMT -5
Get in touch with a machine shop, and find out if they can helicoil that hole for you, it might be the cheaper solution and faster too The only metric drill bit i have is a metric equivalent of a unibit, which i used a lot and is dull now, and i can not get it anymore so i just drill my holes with the dull bit Getting metric drill bit is not easy, but you can use the closest imperial size like you said
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Post by andr01dm on Aug 1, 2008 12:43:26 GMT -5
Just wasted my morning trying to find a metric drill bit.
I called a tool and die shop and they claimed to have metric bits, but when I got there they didn't have a full range of them. I need a 7.0 mm bit to drill the hole to then tap to fit an M8 1.0 bolt. The closest they had was a 6.5 mm, which might have done the job.. but then again it might not. Don't exactly want to risk doing further damage to my engine block on that 0.5 mm difference.
I almost bought it anyway, but then it turned out they didn't have metric tap and die kits or even metric bolts. Silly of me to not ask on the phone I guess.
So back to Canadian Tire for their tap and die kit and whatever imperial drill bit will be close enough.. only.. guess what? They don't carry metric bolts either! "I think they still have some up at the store on Steeles Ave.", was the best the sales person could do for me.
Are we phasing out the metric system or something...?
Oh well, I bought the tap and die kit and according to it's instruction insert I can use a 9/32" drill bit in place of the 7.0 mm; though that's actually 7.14 mm I guess it doesn't make that much difference.
Off to Home Despot I go.. after calling to make sure they have M8 bolts, just in case...
More busses. Joy. >.<
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Post by Kami no Chiizu on Aug 1, 2008 13:27:16 GMT -5
Jeez, I'm not suprised I can't find metric things here, but I figured in Canadia they'd be common...
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Post by chanito on Aug 1, 2008 18:51:24 GMT -5
>:(This is my method as there is no instructions from the factory for this. You need an inch pound torque wrench, the foot pounds are way to big for such a small bolt and the diferences in torque way bigger, so get one, borrow or buy one, a Sears one is good enough. the proper torque sequence is not a crisscross pattern but a spiral one, the 4 long ones are number 1 thru 4, with one being the lower one towards the timing chain, the number 2 the one right above it, 3 is the top outer one, 4 the lower outer one, the two small ones are 5 and 6 with 5 being the lower one, hope that is clear, you need to torque the head in 3 steps. The first one will be 1 thru 4 (in that order) to "20" in/lbs Second is 1 thru 6 torque in that order to "50" in/lbs And finally 1 thru six to "96" in/lbs If you are using ARP bolts you can go to "102" in/lbs (but i keep it at 96, in case i need to take the head apart again, then i will go to 102 the second time around) When you fill the coolant, leave the hose to the carb heater disconnected and fill the rad untill coland flows out of them, then hook the lines and keep filling, when it is full, go for a normal ride of about 15 minutes, then let the scooter cool for about 2 hours, recheck the coolant level, refill if necesary and then go for a hard ride (stay close to home in case the engine overheats due to air in the system) if the engine overheats, do not panic just ride back home and let it cool, refill again and that should take care of the problem, if it does not, congratulate yourself, as you did a good job , I copied this from a post i did on TR, hope it helps you ;D
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Post by andr01dm on Aug 2, 2008 2:02:52 GMT -5
>:(This is my method as there is no instructions from the factory for this. You need an inch pound torque wrench, the foot pounds are way to big for such a small bolt and the diferences in torque way bigger, so get one, borrow or buy one, a Sears one is good enough. the proper torque sequence is not a crisscross pattern but a spiral one, the 4 long ones are number 1 thru 4, with one being the lower one towards the timing chain, the number 2 the one right above it, 3 is the top outer one, 4 the lower outer one, the two small ones are 5 and 6 with 5 being the lower one, hope that is clear, you need to torque the head in 3 steps. The first one will be 1 thru 4 (in that order) to "20" in/lbs Second is 1 thru 6 torque in that order to "50" in/lbs And finally 1 thru six to "96" in/lbs If you are using ARP bolts you can go to "102" in/lbs (but i keep it at 96, in case i need to take the head apart again, then i will go to 102 the second time around) When you fill the coolant, leave the hose to the carb heater disconnected and fill the rad untill coland flows out of them, then hook the lines and keep filling, when it is full, go for a normal ride of about 15 minutes, then let the scooter cool for about 2 hours, recheck the coolant level, refill if necesary and then go for a hard ride (stay close to home in case the engine overheats due to air in the system) if the engine overheats, do not panic just ride back home and let it cool, refill again and that should take care of the problem, if it does not, congratulate yourself, as you did a good job , I copied this from a post i did on TR, hope it helps you ;D Thank you, I'll certainly follow your process here once I am able to. :) Unfortunately my rebuild has hit another snag: After successfully drilling and tapping for the new M8 bolts I managed to destroy the cylinder head gasket that came with my big bore kit. It's the metal gasket coated with some black substance. There's a 6 mm hole on it for one of these bolts and my attempt to drill it out to 8 mm was a complete disaster. The gasket looks to be a part made specially for the big bore kit.. so if you can let me know if you have any or where I else I might be able to get one... Thanks.
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Post by andr01dm on Aug 2, 2008 18:45:50 GMT -5
I have a cunning plan.. a possible fix for the gasket issue. I'm going to give it a try after dinner and, if it works, I'll post 'bout it.
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Post by andr01dm on Aug 4, 2008 15:21:44 GMT -5
Got my the engine back together yesterday and today I installed it. It RUNS! My gods but it runs. :D
The idle needs adjustment as, once it's warmed up, it stalls while idling. But there's a bigger issue: I noticed oil leaking from the back of the transmission case. There's not supposed to be oil in there!
I think the two halves of the crank case didn't seal properly and it's leaking into the transmission. Good thing I didn't get as far as the 15 min of riding for the first part of the break-in process!
Time to drain it, take it back out of the bike and bring it back inside for re-working.
Looks like I'm still riding the subway to work for another week. :(
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Post by chanito on Aug 4, 2008 18:06:44 GMT -5
Stop, what do you mean "back of the transmition case" Check if the leak is from the seal behind the variator, as it can be replaced with the engine on the scooter, also if the leak is from the gear case (the back of the swing arm) it might just need to tighten the oil plug. Now go easy, we know how strong you are
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Post by andr01dm on Aug 4, 2008 19:20:54 GMT -5
>:( Stop, what do you mean "back of the transmition case" Check if the leak is from the seal behind the variator, as it can be replaced with the engine on the scooter, also if the leak is from the gear case (the back of the swing arm) it might just need to tighten the oil plug. Now go easy, we know how strong you are ::) Sorry.. I mean the back end of the swing arm.. the case with the variator, clutch assembly and belt. I immediately opened it up and had a look-see and there was oil on the lower part of the case: My guess is that it's the liquid sealant between the crank case halves or perhaps the oil seal around the drive shaft. I don't think it's something I can fix with the engine still on the bike, so I've brought it back inside and will be taking a closer look.. tomorrow. I'm exhausted! Happy that it runs though. :D
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Post by andr01dm on Aug 5, 2008 14:26:11 GMT -5
Here's a photo of the leak: It appears to be the seal around the drive shaft. I suspect I've put the seal for the stator base (Honda OEM#: 91202-KJ9-003) on here and the seal that should be here (Honda OEM#: 91202-GEE-003) is on the stator base side. Wonder if there's any code printed on them that'd help me figure out if I do have them on the right way around or not..? Ah well.. have to take the crank case apart to deal with this so I guess I'll have the opportunity to check.
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Post by andr01dm on Aug 5, 2008 15:59:12 GMT -5
Okay, I've confirmed it: I've put the seals on backwards.
Me so smart. Dur dur dur.
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Post by Kami no Chiizu on Aug 5, 2008 17:04:27 GMT -5
Okay, I've confirmed it: I've put the seals on backwards. Me so smart. Dur dur dur. Well, at least you know the problem.
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Post by chanito on Aug 5, 2008 17:19:08 GMT -5
Here's a photo of the leak: It appears to be the seal around the drive shaft. I suspect I've put the seal for the stator base (Honda OEM#: 91202-KJ9-003) on here and the seal that should be here (Honda OEM#: 91202-GEE-003) is on the stator base side. Wonder if there's any code printed on them that'd help me figure out if I do have them on the right way around or not..? Ah well.. have to take the crank case apart to deal with this so I guess I'll have the opportunity to check. I guess you did not read the part about those seals on the posts about building the engine :-/ You do not need to take the engine apart, you can just pop that seal out and install the correct one in :-*
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Post by typer126 on Aug 5, 2008 20:06:01 GMT -5
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sr50r
Ruckster
Posts: 281
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Post by sr50r on Aug 6, 2008 21:03:14 GMT -5
It depends on what you're screwing into: if there's more hole, there's less metal. If you're playing in a sensitive area, as you appear to be, I wouldn't mess with that too much. Get the helicoils, they'll actually make for a more solid thread than the original when installed correctly (steel thread distributing the tension over more aluminum than just the original aluminum threads). Also... it shouldn't be that expensive... the picture you've posted if an expensive kit, byt there should be cheaper kits around. If you've already got a full set of drill bits, you should be able to obtain kits that just have the special tap, a plastic inserting tool and a few coils. Like this:
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Post by andr01dm on Aug 10, 2008 0:08:37 GMT -5
Despite it all my bike is running again. Just took it for the first break-in ride, 5 times around the Peanut Plaza, varying the throttle and never going full blast.
Woo! :D
The carb needs some adjusting as it was tough to keep it running in idle when I first started it. Even after 5 - 10 min or so I had to have the idle screw cranked way up to keep it going. But when I got back from my run it was idling far to quickly.. almost dangerously so.
Tomorrow I change the oil, get a couple more break-in runs in and adjust the carb. Hopefully I'll be riding to work on Monday morning.
^_^
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Post by andr01dm on Aug 10, 2008 23:22:10 GMT -5
Finished the break-in runs and have the carb at least roughly tuned: I am getting a bit of hesitation and an infrequent stall when accelerating from a stop, after the engine has warmed up. Some tuning yet to do.
I'm running with 38/83 jetting (if I'm remembering correctly...) and backed off the throttle idle fuel/air mixture adjust by 3/4 turns. Stock muffler and K&N filters replacing the stock air box.
Performance-wise it's now a bit perkier at take off, has a bit more "oomph" when accelerating while at speed and I'm able to keep most of my speed when going up hill now. That's my fav part so far, and the main reason I am doing a big bore; all the long hills I have to go up when riding home, in rush hour traffic.
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