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Post by Workstead on Jul 17, 2007 10:46:59 GMT -5
My first post here. I have looked around and did a few searches and didn't find exactly the same problem in other posts. Maybe it's in another forum? I have a used 2006 with 4700 miles on it. I've had it for five weeks. I put a little gas into the tank, maybe a quart , when the light came on. It ran fine for about a week using it daily. It has been working fine until last week. Going up an incline it slowed down. When I leveled it out it ran OK, for a while. Now it dies when I give try to rev it up. I can't get it to run above an idle. I drained the gas tank and put in new gas, drained the fuel filter and blew out the air filter and that didn't help. If I put some gas down the throatof the carb it will run for a while and will even rev up. When the gas supply runs out it dies. I took the air filter off for a short while to see if that would help and no change. I will replace the fuel filter, air filter and spark plug today before I do much further tinkering. With all those miles I suspect that the previous owner didn't do much to it except wear out the rear tire, which I also need to replace. One last point before my question. I tried to see how much fuel would come out of the gas line when I tried to start it, so I disconnected the gas line to the carb and cranked the engine. Gas only dribbled out of the line. Here's the question and reason for my post: Should the gas squirt out or just ooze out of the line when cranking the starter? Could that be my problem of it dieing when I try to rev the idling engine? Maybe it's just a bad fuel filter? Or worse: bad valves, stopped up carb, etc. Thanks for any thoughts you might share. Clem ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ PROBLEM SOLVED  Thanks to the good information given here by Dandy Dan and Chanito, and the reference that Dan gave me to Timberwolfmadcat's writeup about changing jets, with pictures and an excellent explanation, my problem is solved.  The problem was junk in the carb inlet. A small amount of gas was getting to the bowl but when I reved the engine it would die because it was starved for gas. When I sprayed carb cleaner into the bottom of the carb there was a little trash that flowed into the can I collected the drainings into. But, when I sprayed cleaner into the carb inlet it came right back out of the inlet and almost no cleaner flowed into the carb. I let it sit for a while and when I blasted some carb cleaner into the float valve hole, a stream of cleaner flowed out through the carb inlet. I sprayed into the carb inlet and now cleaner flowed into the carb like it was supposed to. I put the carb back together, athough I lost a screw that goes into the bottom of the carb and I had to take one from the bracket that holds the low gas light assembly and shorten it up a little. Everything went back together in reverse order of disassembly and when I started it up, it worked properly. Now when I rev it up it revs up like it should (although it now smokes white smoke, subject of another post after I search the posts for how others solved this problem) and I will put the seat back on tomorrow and take it for a ride. Next week I will change out the gas filter, air filter and change the oil and oil screen to see if that helps reduce or eliminate the white smoke. Thanks again for your help. Clem |
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billd
n00b Ruckster
Posts: 6
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Post by billd on Jul 17, 2007 17:40:24 GMT -5
In answer to your question, gas does not squirt out the hose, it just dribbles in pulses like you described so your fuel pump is probably OK. Sounds like a carb problem or possibly the valves are tight. Have you checked the valve adjustment? Not that hard to do and you can get step by step instructions on this forum. The valves are not screw adjustable but use shims to set the gap. The shims are removed by sliding the rocker arm to one side and they have a permanent marking which gives the thickness. If your valves are too tight, you will need to use thinner shims which are available from your dealer. Sometimes, they will just trade you for the old ones. About $5 per shim if you have to buy em. I'll let someone else advise about your carbuerator.
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Post by chanito on Jul 17, 2007 19:42:54 GMT -5
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Post by Workstead on Jul 17, 2007 20:22:57 GMT -5
OK guys. I will clean the carb after I replace the air and gas filter and spark plug.
Then I will check the valve adjustment. I have never done anything like that so I will study the instructions that are on this site somewhere.
Thanks for the reply about the fuel pump not squirting. Good to know that at least the fuel is probably working.
Clem
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Post by Dandy Dan on Jul 18, 2007 11:10:50 GMT -5
If it's idles fine and only dies when you give it gas I'd say that your valves are not the main issue. They may need adjustment still but they aren't super tight and causing you to lose compression because if that's the case then it runs the worst at low RPMs so it's very hard to start and it idles terrible but generally gets better as the RPMs rise because everything is happening faster so the compressed air/fuel mix has less time to hiss out past the valves.
It sounds to me like when you crack the throttle you are probably getting plenty of air but not enough gas. I'd unscrew the bottom of the carb and check if you can spot a plugged jet (likely the main one in the center). Maybe when you were low on gas some crud got sucked up???
Thanksfully it still runs so if you want to try a lazy approach first you could put a bunch of carb cleaner in your gas tank and then let it idle for an hour or two and see if that clears it out.
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Post by Workstead on Jul 18, 2007 17:31:21 GMT -5
Hi Dan, The problem started after I added gas. There must have been junk in the gas that ended up in the carb. I've already tried the "lazy" approach and it didn't help. When you say "unscrew the botom of the carb" should I remove the carb from the engine to do this? How involved is removing the carb? Anything special that I should watch for when doing this? Thanks again for your help. Clem ... It sounds to me like when you crack the throttle you are probably getting plenty of air but not enough gas. I'd unscrew the bottom of the carb and check if you can spot a plugged jet (likely the main one in the center). Maybe when you were low on gas some crud got sucked up??? Thanksfully it still runs so if you want to try a lazy approach first you could put a bunch of carb cleaner in your gas tank and then let it idle for an hour or two and see if that clears it out. |
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Post by Dandy Dan on Jul 19, 2007 10:50:57 GMT -5
To unscrew the bottom of the carb, first get access to the carb by removing the seatframe, battery box and floorboard. Then you need to loosen the main screws on the front and back of the carb so you can disconnect the main hoses going in and out of it. Then there will be a few more hoses connecting to the carb...you'll likely need to remove a few (or most) of these so that you are able to flip it over. I'd say if you remove the two coolant hoses at the front on the bottom and then the bigger hose going in the left side you should be able to flip it. Once you've got it flipped, there's just 3 screws that hold the bottom on. Remove them and you're home free....don't strip them.
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Post by Workstead on Jul 19, 2007 12:31:11 GMT -5
Dan, Thanks for the clear and easy instructions. It's so much easier to do something the second time. With your good instructions it will be like I'm doing this for the second time for me. I think I'll try to clean the carb before I do anything else or change out anything. That way I can be sure what the problem was when (if) I get it fixed.
ClemTo unscrew the bottom of the carb, first get access to the carb but remove the seatframe, battery box and floorboard. Then you need to loosen the main screws on the front and back of the carb so you can disconnect the main hoses going in and out of it. Then there will be a few more hoses connecting to the carb...you'll likely need to remove a few (or most) of these so that you are able to flip it over. I'd say if you remove the two coolant hoses at the front on the bottom and then the bigger hose going in the left side you should be able to flip it. Once you've got it flipped, there's just 3 screws that hold the bottom on. Remove them and you're home free....don't strip them. |
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Post by timberwolfmadcat on Jul 19, 2007 19:39:06 GMT -5
Dan, Thanks for the clear and easy instructions. It's so much easier to do something the second time. With your good instructions it will be like I'm doing this for the second time for me. I think I'll try to clean the carb before I do anything else or change out anything. That way I can be sure what the problem was when (if) I get it fixed.
ClemCheck out the rejetting thread in the how to for piccys To unscrew the bottom of the carb, first get access to the carb but remove the seatframe, battery box and floorboard. Then you need to loosen the main screws on the front and back of the carb so you can disconnect the main hoses going in and out of it. Then there will be a few more hoses connecting to the carb...you'll likely need to remove a few (or most) of these so that you are able to flip it over. I'd say if you remove the two coolant hoses at the front on the bottom and then the bigger hose going in the left side you should be able to flip it. Once you've got it flipped, there's just 3 screws that hold the bottom on. Remove them and you're home free....don't strip them. |
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Post by Dandy Dan on Jul 20, 2007 9:56:29 GMT -5
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Post by Workstead on Jul 20, 2007 12:19:10 GMT -5
Dan, That is a great posting. I can even envision myself doing it withour any problem. Now I know why you said to watch out and not strip the screw. Some of those fasteners and pretty soft. I did that on the cover when trying to lubricate the kick starter. Ended up using a vice grip and then I used a file and made the bolt a square head, Put come goop on the threads to prevent gaulling and am hoping I don't have to take it of again. Thanks again for your help Dan. Clem |
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Post by Dandy Dan on Jul 20, 2007 13:50:35 GMT -5
no problem...Timbers the one who did all that work putting that together |
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Post by Workstead on Jul 21, 2007 20:12:18 GMT -5
PROBLEM SOLVED Thanks to the good information given here by Dandy Dan and Chanito, and the reference that Dan gave me to Timberwolfmadcat's writeup about changing jets, with pictures and an excellent explanation, my problem is solved. The problem was junk in the carb inlet. A small amount of gas was getting to the bowl but when I reved the engine it would die because it was starved for gas. When I sprayed carb cleaner into the bottom of the carb there was a little trash that flowed into the can I collected the drainings into. But, when I sprayed cleaner into the carb inlet it came right back out of the inlet and almost no cleaner flowed into the carb. I let it sit for a while and when I blasted some carb cleaner into the float valve hole, a stream of cleaner flowed out through the carb inlet. I sprayed into the carb inlet and now cleaner flowed into the carb like it was supposed to. I put the carb back together, athough I lost a screw that goes into the bottom of the carb and I had to take one from the bracket that holds the low gas light assembly and shorten it up a little. Everything went back together in reverse order of disassembly and when I started it up, it worked properly. Now when I rev it up it revs up like it should (although it now smokes white smoke, subject of another post after I search the posts for how others solved this problem) and I will put the seat back on tomorrow and take it for a ride. Next week I will change out the gas filter, air filter and change the oil and oil screen to see if that helps reduce or eliminate the white smoke. Thanks again for your help. Clem
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Post by chanito on Jul 21, 2007 20:48:51 GMT -5
Congrats Now go ride that scooter ;D ;D
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Post by gomiotaku on Jul 21, 2007 21:13:04 GMT -5
What kind of crap did you find? I thought we had a fuel filter inline on these things...and I have the exact same problem. I think there are probably 3-4 people total posting lately on TR and here who are going to be happy you found a solution...now I just gotta go pull mine apart. No garage, and it's been raining all afternoon. I hate waiting for a clear spot in the clouds.
gomi_
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Post by Workstead on Jul 22, 2007 6:53:49 GMT -5
What kind of crap did you find? I thought we had a fuel filter inline on these things...and I have the exact same problem. I think there are probably 3-4 people total posting lately on TR and here who are going to be happy you found a solution...now I just gotta go pull mine apart. No garage, and it's been raining all afternoon. I hate waiting for a clear spot in the clouds. gomi_ |
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Post by Workstead on Jul 22, 2007 7:28:19 GMT -5
Hi Gomi, I think there were actually 3 kinds of junk that were cleaned out. 1. There were some water droplets in the can that I caught everything in. It could have come from one of the cooling lines but I think it was in the carb bowl. 2. There was some rusty colored liquid in the carb bowl. 3. There was some sort of yellowish film/skin that broke into small pieces when I hit the carb bowl with the carb cleaner. I think that was what in the inlet line going to the float valve chamber. When I checked the fuel filter again there was some rust in it and some little black grains. It looked like coarse pepper. I also found just a few black grains in the can that caught the drippings. I suspect that it is the original fuel filter and also original air filter. My used Ruckus has about 5000 miles on it and I don't think the previous original owner did much to it except ride it. The Ruckus had no braking at all and the back tire was worn to the point of being slick and having holes in it. He wasn't very mechanical and when I got my machine he gave me the brake fluid he had bought but hadn't put in because he couldn't find the brake fluid filler. Of couse not, the Ruckus had mechanical brakes. He also gave me the gas conditioner/cleaner bottle he had bought. I suspect he was having troubles with it stalling on acceleration as well. He had only used the electric start a few times when it was new because it wasn't working. He always used the kick starter. I changed the 20 amp fuse, using the spare provided, and have been using the electric starter except when the battery is run down. There may be an issue there but I haven't taken any long rides to charge the battery so I use a 3 amp charger every once in a while. Now that it is running again I will replace the filters and change the oil and clean the screen. I will also adjust the brakes again to get the front and back syncronized and then the only thing it needs is one headlight that dosn't work on low beam and the right hand mirror. I will have a good machine and after I buy all of the parts to get it in shape I will have about $325 invested and a 2006 scooter with only a few scrapes. Clem What kind of crap did you find? I thought we had a fuel filter inline on these things...and I have the exact same problem. I think there are probably 3-4 people total posting lately on TR and here who are going to be happy you found a solution...now I just gotta go pull mine apart. No garage, and it's been raining all afternoon. I hate waiting for a clear spot in the clouds. gomi_ |
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Post by gomiotaku on Jul 22, 2007 10:52:26 GMT -5
Are you meaning $325 including the purchase price of the scooter from the previous owner? damn...
gomi_
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Post by Workstead on Jul 22, 2007 15:43:25 GMT -5
Are you meaning $325 including the purchase price of the scooter from the previous owner? damn... gomi_ Thats correct, $325 total. I think he thought the Ruckus was worn out. Bad tire, no brakes and engine that needed work (clean the carb) and he wanted out. I just happened to be at the right place at the right time with never a thought of owning a Ruckus. I didn't even know what a deal it was at the time, now I do. Clem |
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Post by Kami no Chiizu on Jul 22, 2007 18:29:17 GMT -5
Nice...
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OK first 
